[sinjin]

Otis has this stuff on the market, called Lifeliner, which they claim will all but eliminate wear in the barrel bore. Anyone here know anything about it? Anyone tried it? Is anyone in the military actually using this stuff? I sent an email to them to ask some questions about it, and I included the responses, below, but I'd still like to get some feedback from someone who has actually used it.

P.S. What do you think he means by "nuclear microphone"? An electron microsocope, maybe? ??? :

----> attachment below, edited for format <----

Dear David,

Thank you for contacting Otis Technology, Inc. for your LifeLiner questions. I contacted Brad, our Director of Military Sales and he has replied to your inquiries.


Q: Is LifeLiner compatible with chrome lined barrels?

A: Yes they can. Even though the barrel is chrome lined under a nuclear microphone you will find it has imperfect areas that the LifeLiner will smooth out.


Q: Will the use of alcohol, ammonia, or acetone to clean a treated barrel remove LifeLiner from the inside of the barrel, or reduce its longevity?

A: Cleaning your bore will be significantly easier than before; it is similar to cleaning a ceramic cake pan vs. an aluminum dish. You can literally wipe a ceramic dish out with a paper towel. So the need for heavy chemicals is not necessary. Of the ones you named above, they would be OK in moderation.


Q: Will the use of any of the other common hydrocarbon or non-hydrocarbon based carbon or copper removers remove LifeLiner or reduce its longevity?

A: I would not apply anything to the inside of the bore that you would need a respirator on while cleaning your firearms. I tell people don't push the envelope, if you think what your using potentially could, don't use it. There are 1000's of chemicals out there to clean your firearms with including our, and ours works very well with LifeLiner.


Q: Are there specific gun cleaning substances you recommend not using on a barrel treated with LifeLiner?

A: I do not recommend using any sort of lapping compounds after it is applied. But like I mentioned earlier, we tried many scenarios before going to market with what chemicals won't work and none that we used really seemed to lessen its liner. But I would still use good judgment with what you clean with after.


Q: Is there a procedure by which I can remove LifeLiner from the inside of a barrel, if I ever need to or want to?

A: A few passes with a Bore lapping compound.


Q: Will dry, penetrating lubricants, like Millitech-1, "bond" to the inside of a barrel treated with LifeLiner the same way they do to metal surfaces?

A: I would say no or very little. The ceramic liner forms a very good coating to the bore. That's what keeps the lead and copper from building up like it can without it.


Feel free to contact the office the office if you have any further questions or concerns. Thank you and enjoy your day.

Best regards,

Deb Mullin
Customer Service
Otis Technology, Inc.
315-348-4300
315-348-4332 fax

 

[DSM]

It sounds like a gimmick but Otis is pretty reputable. Shooting goo down the barrel is a little unorthodox.

 

[sinjin]

I read some of the patents and journal papers relating to the technology, and became convinced enough to try it (see US 6423669 and US 7304020), but I didn't buy the Otis brand product. A company called Xado makes a nearly identical product. I suspect the Otis product is the Xado product re-branded. The compounds in the bore treatment have been used as a performance engine oil and transmission oil additive for at least a few years.

How it Works, as I understand it: extremely small particles of several oxidized metals and ceramics, including silica (silicon dioxide) and magnesium oxide, are mixed into the gel/oil/grease/whatever. The heat of friction between the two working surfaces (in this case, the bullet and the barrel) causes the oxidized elements to react with, and bond to, the working surfaces (bullet and barrel), filling in small pits and micro-cracks with a hard, low friction cermet. Because the cermet layer reduces the friction, which is required to cause the necessary chemical reaction for formation, the process is self limiting. The result is a tough, smooth, low friction, close tolerance interface between the two working surfaces.

It's my hope that it will retard barrel wear, although he manufacturer claims it wil also improve accuracy. Unfortunately, I don't have the means to do any real testing to verify the effectiveness of the product. Maybe I should shoot some groups from a bench rest and post them here, to see if I'm getting better-than-average accuracy from my XCR, although a proper test would have to factor in the ammunition used and the ambient conditions, at a minimum. Ideally, two different barrels would be used to fire rounds from the same lot of ammunition, using the same rifle: a test that the XCR is particularly suited to, given its quick-change barrel. Unfortunately, I don't have a second barrel.

 

[davek]

The "Nuclear microphone" phrase pretty much eliminates any credibility despite Otis' reputation.

 

[1redgmc]

The "Nuclear microphone" phrase pretty much eliminates any credibility despite Otis' reputation.

I thought the same thing.

I put this stuff in the same category as the stupid metal "Tornado" gizmo meant to be installed on cars to improve gas mileage. :2cents:

 

[sinjin]

You may well be right, 1redgmc. I wish I had an easy way to test the validity of their claims. If I ever get a second barrel, I'll do just that.

 

[1redgmc]

Let us know - I think an unbiased - real world test is in order! ;D

 

[air]

a friend used cermax on an ar. he did the entire barrel. short story, it quit cycling reliably. he put another barrel on and did all but the first four inches. no problems. fired fine, cycled fine, even piked up 150 fps with a 16" barrel. accuruacy? didn't change much.