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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

I found it interesting, in the current political climate, that the following quote was on a box of Corn Flakes I bought today:

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

It amazes me, all the sage advise that our elders have imparted to us. From George Washington on. Today people dismiss it as something "said for their day, it doesn't apply to us in our day".

I thought it was funny the other day, watching the news. It said that the stockmarket had its biggest loss last year since the great depression. Ya think maybe we are close to another one?? Retards.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President." ~ Theodore Roosevelt


Sounds like feel good rhetoric to me that doesn't actually mean anything practical. What exactly does "stand by" and "country" mean?

It's like telling someone to be a good person. What does it mean? Who's definition of good person are we using? etc.

Feel good rhetoric is manipulation and propaganda and taken to its logical historical end always ends in a lot of people dying.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

You have to remember the time frame when this was spoken,people back then said what they meant,and meant what they said.I doubt "Teddy" had rhetoric in mind when he said that,and common sense was more...common.I believe he simply meant that standing by the country was synonymous with patriotism,you pull your own weight.Our country was built on the spirit of self reliance,not handouts like today.In other words you did your part and didn't have to agree with elected officials,just because they were elected officials.Remember too the founders were considered traitors to the crown,but sometimes patriotism involves more than just waving a flag and reciting the pledge of allegiance.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Sounds like feel good rhetoric to me that doesn't actually mean anything practical. What exactly does "stand by" and "country" mean?
It means that when the CHINCOMS come parachuting in, you grab your XCR and make sure they never reach the ground alive.

To me, patriotism consists of peacably participating in the election process, reprimanding my elected officials for violations of the Constitution, and doing my best to legally avoid paying taxes. :p
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Sounds like feel good rhetoric to me that doesn't actually mean anything practical. What exactly does "stand by" and "country" mean?
It means that when the CHINCOMS come parachuting in, you grab your XCR and make sure they never reach the ground alive.
That's your interpretation of it though. Just as a comment such as "Be a good person." will have a different meaning for every person that tries to define it. So will "stand by your country" will have millions of different meanings depending on who you ask.

It's ambiguous and given that millions of people have died for their "country" it's a bit frightening how something so vague could have so much influence over people.

How can someone make an intelligent decision with respect to their country?

When you are voting are you voting for who you think will benefit your needs or who is good for the "country" or who someone else tells you to vote for? If an elected official asked you to vote for them and they would give you money if you did (out of the public coffers), would you vote for them to get the money? If not, why not? How do you balance what you want and what you think the "country" wants? How do you know for sure that it's bad for the country to ban all guns? It may be bad for you but it's good for the criminals and the criminals are citizens of this country as you are, they vote and have families (albeit probably dysfunctional ones).

Regarding your definition, I don't think it's patriotic to shoot someone you know is going to shoot you once they make it to the ground. I think that's common sense ;-)

To me, patriotism consists of peacably participating in the election process, reprimanding my elected officials for violations of the Constitution, and doing my best to legally avoid paying taxes. :p
Why do you feel that those are patriotic things to do? Just curious what your explanation would be.

Arguably taxes are there to pay for the government, it is the "intent of the law" to collect money to pay for things. So, if you are "intentionally" avoiding taxes while it may technically be legal you are avoiding the intent or purpose of the law.

A "Country" is an idea, an intent, a purpose. So, if you are going to stand by and defend the idea of Country but at the same time try to find legal ways to avoid the intent of the tax laws it seems a bit contradictory.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President." ~ Theodore Roosevelt


Sounds like feel good rhetoric to me that doesn't actually mean anything practical. What exactly does "stand by" and "country" mean?

It's like telling someone to be a good person. What does it mean? Who's definition of good person are we using? etc.

Feel good rhetoric is manipulation and propaganda and taken to its logical historical end always ends in a lot of people dying.


Right on, Lex. Spoken like a true NH-ite.

How's that snow treating you? Skiing much?
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

How's that snow treating you? Skiing much?
Roads are really bad today.

Haven't been skiing but did respond to an ambulance call just a few days ago for a woman who broke her wrist skiing. Nice thing about our local ski place is that there are EMTs on staff so when we get there the person is already packaged and ready to, we just transport. This was my first time in the back by myself, I had to chit-chat to keep her mind occupied and not thinking about the pain. She was from Massachusetts and when I told her I was a volunteer and not getting paid for this she gave me a look of disbelief. The whole community volunteer spirit aimed at reducing property taxes is non-existent out in the socialist paradise. I'm on the volunteer fire/ambulance department not because of some social obligation but for selfish reasons: I get to learn and experience useful skills and by not getting paid I keep the property taxes down 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

It makes me proud to be an American and to know that Corn Flakes started this thread. ;D

Keep the dialogue alive!
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

That's your interpretation of it though...

Why do you feel that those are patriotic things to do? Just curious what your explanation would be.
I'm just being silly.

I'd rather avoid playing the definitions/semantics game.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Mark Twain stated: patriotism is supporting your country all the time and the government when it deserves it.

I like Twain's statement better.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Exact quote:
... true patriotism, the only rational patriotism, is loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

MONTPELIER, Vt. 1/ 26 /2009 - At Riverwalk Records, the all-vinyl music store just down the street from the state Capitol, the black “US Out of Vt.!” T-shirts are among the hottest sellers.


But to some people in Vermont, the idea is bigger than a $20 novelty. They want Vermont to secede from the United States — peacefully, of course.

Disillusioned by what they call an empire about to fall, a small cadre of writers and academics hopes to put the question before citizens in March. Eventually, they want to persuade state lawmakers to declare independence, returning Vermont to the status it held from 1777 to 1791.

Neither the state nor the U.S. Constitution explicitly forbids secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

“I always thought the Civil War settled that,” said Russell Wheeler, a constitutional law expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. If Vermont fought and won a war with the federal government, “then you could say Vermont proved the point. But that’s not going to happen.”

Still, the idea has found plenty of sympathetic ears in Vermont, a left-leaning state that said yes to civil unions, no to slavery (before any other) and last year elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate.

Supporters have published a “Green Mountain Manifesto” subtitled “Why and How Tiny Vermont Might Help Save America From Itself by Seceding from the Union.”

In 2005, about 300 people turned out for a secession convention in the Statehouse, and plans for a second one are in the works. A poll this year by the University of Vermont’s Center for Rural Studies found that 13 percent of those surveyed support secession, up from 8 percent a year before.
But sense the Election of November 4th 2007 ,that number has risen to 45%.

“The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable — it’s too big, it’s too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens,” said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession.

“We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of the lazy , robbing from the workers,” Williams said. “If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what’s left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire.”
Residents are saying they just do not trust the Obama Administration .,and they do not want to be caught up in the eventual fall of this Country.

Secession movements have a long history. Key West, Fla., staged a mock secession from America in the 1980s. In Vermont, the town of Killington tried to break away and join New Hampshire in 2004, and Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Texas all have some form of secession organizations today.

The Vermont movement has been simmering for years but gained new traction because of the
Election , the lies , and the Politicians now asking for more taxes ,when we don't have any money now. Today we are seeing the formation of several pro-secession groups.

Secession supporters hope to have the question considered in March on Town Meeting Day, when voters gather to discuss state and local issues.

Thomas Naylor, 70, a retired Duke University economics professor and author, wrote the manifesto and founded a secession group called Second Vermont Republic.

His 112-page manifesto contains little explanation of how Vermont would make do without federal aid for security, education and social programs. Some in the movement foresee a Vermont with its own currency and passports, for example, and some form of representative government formed once the secession has taken place.

Frank Bryan, a professor at the University of Vermont who has championed the cause for years, said the cachet of secession would make the new republic a magnet.

“People would obviously relish coming to the Republic of Vermont, the Switzerland of North America,” he said. “Christ, you couldn’t keep them away.”

The Middlebury Institute, a Cold Spring, N.Y., think tank, hosted a North American Separatist Convention last fall in Burlington that drew representatives from 16 organizations. The group is co-sponsoring another conference in April, in Chattanooga, Tenn.

Of course, skeptics abound.

“It doesn’t make economic sense, it doesn’t make political sense, it doesn’t make historical sense. Other than that, it’s a good idea,” said Paul Gillies, a lawyer and Vermont historian.

For now, the would-be secessionists are hoping to draw enough support to get the question on Town Meeting Day agendas.

“We’re normal human beings,” said Williams, 39, a history professor at Champlain College. “But we’re serious about this. We want people in Vermont to think about the options going forward. Do you want to stay in an empire that’s in deep trouble?”
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

STATE OF OKLAHOMA
2nd Session of the 51st Legislature [01/26/2009]
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 1098
By: Jones
AS INTRODUCED

A Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and directing distribution.

WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States reads as follows:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."; and

WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States and no more; and WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that the federal government was created by the states specifically to be an agent of the states; and

WHEREAS, today, in 2009, the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and

WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and

WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and

WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from Congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE OF THE 2ND SESSION OF THE 51ST OKLAHOMA LEGISLATURE:

THAT the State of Oklahoma hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States.

THAT this serve as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.

THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate of each state's legislature of the United States of America, and each member of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

----------------------------------------------------------------
¦ REFERENCE TITLE: abolish federal government; state sovereignty ¦
----------------------------------------------------------------
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
¦ State of Arizona ¦
¦ House of Representatives ¦
¦ Forty-fourth Legislature ¦
¦ Second Regular Session ¦
¦ 2009 ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
----------------------------------------------------------------
¦ HCR 2034 ¦
----------------------------------------------------------------
¦ Introduced by ¦
¦ Representatives Johnson, Cooley ¦
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A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

PROPOSING THE DISSOLUTION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IF CERTAIN CONDITIONS OCCUR.

(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)

Whereas, on July 4, 1776, our founding fathers proclaimed that the people had the right to alter or abolish their government and declared thirteen British colonies to be free and independent, or sovereign, states; and

Whereas, on March 1, 1781, the thirteen states formed a central government they called the United States of America under a charter known as the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, which stated that "each state retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence"; and

Whereas, on September 17, 1787, the leaders of the Continental Congress signed the present Constitution of the United States, which was then transmitted to the thirteen states for ratification and the formation of a new central government; and

Whereas, several of the states delayed ratification of the Constitution and three states made clear their position regarding sovereignty by stating that "the powers of government may be resumed by the people whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness"; and

Whereas, eventually all thirteen of the independent states ratified the Constitution of the United States and joined the new Union, while retaining their sovereignty as states. The states made the new central government sovereign only to the extent that the states delegated to it limited and specific powers; and

Whereas, the Constitution of the United States is merely a treaty among sovereigns, and under treaty law when one party violates the treaty the other parties are automatically released from further adherence to it unless they wish to continue; and

Whereas, the fifty current principals, or signatories, to the treaty have done well in honoring and obeying it, yet the federal agent has, for decades, violated it in both word and spirit. The many violations of the Constitution of the United States by the federal government include disposing of federal property without the approval of Congress, usurping jurisdiction from the states in such matters as abortion and firearms rights and seeking control of public lands within state borders; and

Whereas, under Article V, Constitution of the United States, three-fourths of the states may abolish the federal government. In the alternative, if the states choose to exercise their inherent right as sovereigns, fewer than thirty-eight states may lawfully choose to ignore Article V, Constitution of the United States, and establish a new federal government for themselves by following the precedent established by Article VII, Constitution of the United States, in which nine of the existing thirteen states dissolved the existing Union under the Articles of Confederation and automatically superceded the Articles.

Therefore

Be it resolved by the House of Representatives of the State of Arizona, the Senate concurring:

1. That when or if the President of the United States, the Congress of the United States or any other federal agent or agency declares the Constitution of the United States to be suspended or abolished, if the President or any other federal entity attempts to institute martial law or its equivalent without an official declaration in one or more of the states without the consent of that state or if any federal order attempts to make it unlawful for individual Americans to own firearms or to confiscate firearms, the State of Arizona, when joined by thirty-four of the other fifty states, declares as follows: that the states resume all state powers delegated by the Constitution of the United States and assume total sovereignty; that the states re-ratify and re-establish the present Constitution of the United States as the charter for the formation of a new federal government, to be followed by the election of a new Congress and President and the reorganization of a new judiciary, similarly following the precedent and procedures of the founding fathers; that individual members of the military return to their respective states and report to the Governor until a new President is elected; that each state assume a negotiated, prorated share of the national debt; that all land within the borders of a state belongs to the state until sold or ceded to the central government by the state's Legislature and Governor; and that once thirty-five states have agreed to form a new government, each of the remaining fifteen be permitted to join the new confederation on application.

2. That the Secretary of State of the State of Arizona transmit copies of this Resolution to the President of the United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives and each Member of Congress from the State of Arizona.
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Republican Party of the Texas State Legislature Letter of intent ,As Per The Republic Therein.
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
State Secession
The threat of breaking up the united States, may be the last hope for keeping it together and free.

The threat of a State, such as Montana, breaking away from the united States is a valid way for States to keep the Federal Government in check. Our more local Government, like State and City, are just as responsible for protecting our basic self-evident Rights like Life and Liberty as the Federal Government is, and our local Governments have been asleep at the wheel. We are suffering the consequences of this today. If a Federal Judge rules that the Federal Government can FORCE you to PAY somebody else's bill via a Food Stamp Program, then that Federal Judge is WRONG, and the States need to act on our behalf because this ruling violates the SELF-EVIDENT truth that you have a Right to Liberty. Being forced to work for somebody else, is NOT Liberty. The Declaration of Independence basically told the Government of England that it lost jurisdiction of the Colonies by failing to uphold the people's God given Human Rights.

When the Democratic Party in the South seceded during the 1800s, it was because the 3rd party Republican candidate for president, President Lincoln, won the election on a Slavery Abolitionist Platform. After the Democrats walked out, they formed a 'New Nation on the Cornerstone of Slavery', that is a quote using their own words from their own documents. See the following PDF document for proof about how it is a matter of historic FACT that the Democrats are the Party of Slavery, the KKK, and other Human Rights violations such as lynching.

Document: Democrats and Republicans: In Their Own Words

Wall Builders has thousands of authentic historic documents which prove the Christian Heritage of the united States.

A States Right to leave the Union is still Constitutional
If a State Threatens to Secede, How do You Know If it is The Right Thing To Do? Answer: If it is being done to protect God given Rights. Protecting God given Rights is the foremost duty of any Government, it is why we told the King of England to take a hike. Our Local Government in the Colonies defended us against the large centralized power of the British Empire, because the British Empire was violating our God given Basic Human Rights such as Liberty.

Democratic Party - Enemy of Liberty
The Democrats were the ones who opposed ending Black Slavery, and the Democrats are still the Slave Traders of today, using the fruit of Taxpayers in order pay for Government Handouts so as to Bribe People to vote for them. At the time of the Civil War, the States that tried to secede, were doing so for the purpose of violating basic God given Human Rights via Slavery. It was those on the side of the Union who were in the right because they were the ones who protected Liberty by ending Slavery. In the case of Abortion, the Democrats are on the side of violating the God Given Right to Life. Now that the Liberty Stealing Democrats in charge of the Federal Government, and are not planing to undo the Liberty violating Government Handout Programs but increase them instead, any States which advocate secession, will be doing so in order to protect the God given Human Rights of their Citizens, and will therefore be in the right. In other words, the States which tried to secede in the 1800s were in the wrong and the Federal Government was in the right, today the Federal Government is in the wrong, so States which threaten to secede in order to protect their Citizens will be in the right.

Press your Local Representatives to uphold their Oath of Office
The States need to stand up for our Freedom, and threaten secession if needed in order to protect the unalienable Rights of their Citizens. If it comes down to it, the States must secede in order to protect their Citizens. I pray it doesn't not have to end in secession, but I know that the Control Freak Enemies of Liberty Democratic Party won't give up very easily.

This country belongs to We The People's, it is our duty to pass Freedom on to the next generation. If your local Government will not stand up for your Rights, you will need to start kicking them out of office. In California, you can start a recall petition at any time. Other States have their own provisions which should be used, find out the procedure.

This problem can be solved from the bottom up. Start with going down to your local Mayor and demand the ending of all Government Handout Programs because it violates the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and your unalienable Right to Liberty. Tell the Mayor to pass it on to the County and State Government. Let them know you will hold them accountable to their Oath of Office and get rid of them if they fail in their duty.

Do not let everything go down the tubes and then be sorry afterwards that you did not act.

See the free book entitled, 'Reviving Freedom, Change We Can All Unite Around' at the top of the right side bar of this blog, for more information on the how and why of standing up for Liberty.
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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Hello there "Infidel", to my Friends across the way, I have been advocating that we "the US Fighting Persons", begin to soak all of Our ammo in Pigs' Blood and broadcast it! Honestly, this was done back in the late 1800's - the early 1900's and you will be surprised to see that it worked quite well. The towel heads laid down their weapons and started to act like real people! Took the "suicide" heroes right out of their frame of mind and when those folks attacked us and forced us to reply in pig blood soaked lead, you can imaging what their thinking must have been. When you are desecrated and do not have anyway to do penitence and beg forgiveness is not an option, them you are going STRAIGHT TO HELL because the pigs' blood will be on your body! I think it's a lovely idea! Guaranteed to work!



It makes me proud to be an American and to know that Corn Flakes started this thread. ;D

Keep the dialogue alive!
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Wasn't that idea pioneered by Black Jack Pershing?
 

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Re: "Patriotism means to stand by the country...."

Hello there "Infidel", to my Friends across the way, I have been advocating that we "the US Fighting Persons", begin to soak all of Our ammo in Pigs' Blood and broadcast it! Honestly, this was done back in the late 1800's - the early 1900's and you will be surprised to see that it worked quite well. The towel heads laid down their weapons and started to act like real people!
Can you cite a source for that story?
 
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