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XCR-Mini vs Sig Rattler (.300 BO; SBR)

  • Sig Rattler; 5.5” barrel

  • XCR-L Mini; 7.5” barrel

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy Team,
I need your help comparing the XCR-L Mini vs the Sig Rattler (SBR).
Long-time XCR owner setting up a trunk rifle for a VERY small space - LxWxH 19” x 9” x 10”.

Weapon Dims & Weight

Sig Rattler (.300 BO)
Barrel Length: 5.5”
Folded Length: 16”
Height: 8”
Weight: 6 lbs

RA XCR-L Mini (.300 BO)
Barrel Length: 7.5”
Folded Length: 18.5”(?)
Height: 7.5” (pic rail to bottom of pistol grip)
Weight: Unknown

My concerns:
1) Will I be able to make the guns for with a red dot? I’ve been looking at low mounting either the Leupold Delta Point Pro or the Sig Romeo3 XL
2) Will I be able to fit the XCR Mini with a flash hider?

Bias: Off the bat, the XCR appears to have the better stock and ergos, though I’ve never handled the Rattler. Also, I like that the XCR’s longer barrel for better muzzle velocity and less muzzle flash.

Please chime in!
 

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Don't forget about the magazine. With such a small enclosed space you might be stuck with a 20rd magazine. Personally I'm waiting on the xcr-p before I get one in micro length.
Pretty sure the xcr will have fewer MIM parts than the sig
 

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If you can fit it, I'd go XCR....but I'm biased.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Don't forget about the magazine. With such a small enclosed space you might be stuck with a 20rd magazine. Personally I'm waiting on the xcr-p before I get one in micro length.
Pretty sure the xcr will have fewer MIM parts than the sig
I thought about using a B&T APC9 for this, but I would prefer the extra power of a rifle cartridge. I think I’ll be able to fit a 30rd mag alongside the gun. If not, 20 rds isn’t bad.
 

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I had a similar evaluation recently and landed on the XCR-L Standard, not the mini, with a 9.5" barrel, 300 BO. That doesn't mean I won't also enjoy the Rattler, but as Sean said "if you can fit, I'd go XCR". Why give up more velocity than necessary?

My XCR lives in a Vertx Commuter Sling 2.0, which is only slightly larger than the space you're considering (20"H x 11.5"W x 2.5”D, 20" Diagonal Length). If you had a barrel that's 2" shorter, I don't see you having an issue with a space that's only 1" smaller than in the longest dimension.

I have an EOTech EXPS3 mounted, so if you're going to use a dot smaller than that, you should be fine. To mount a can, I'm using a Dead Air KeyMicro Brake, which is about 2.06" long, but maybe half-ish of that is threading, so it adds maybe an inch to the overall length and fits just fine. A normal flash hider is only slightly smaller than this.

FWIW, I did chop the grip to minimize printing in the bag. Now there is only minor printing if you know what you're looking for, because ... fabric, so if that's something you absolutely want to avoid, you'll probably want to go as small as possible.

Really hoping Mountainman, or really anyone with the skills, picks up the side folding charging handle project again. Not having a handle poking into the laptop area would alleviate my concerns of my screen breaking.

Luggage and bags Bag Rectangle Beige Automotive lighting
Luggage and bags Bag Tints and shades Rectangle Font
 

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I had a similar evaluation recently and landed on the XCR-L Standard, not the mini, with a 9.5" barrel, 300 BO. That doesn't mean I won't also enjoy the Rattler, but as Sean said "if you can fit, I'd go XCR". Why give up more velocity than necessary?

My XCR lives in a Vertx Commuter Sling 2.0, which is only slightly larger than the space you're considering (20"H x 11.5"W x 2.5”D, 20" Diagonal Length). If you had a barrel that's 2" shorter, I don't see you having an issue with a space that's only 1" smaller than in the longest dimension.

I have an EOTech EXPS3 mounted, so if you're going to use a dot smaller than that, you should be fine. To mount a can, I'm using a Dead Air KeyMicro Brake, which is about 2.06" long, but maybe half-ish of that is threading, so it adds maybe an inch to the overall length and fits just fine. A normal flash hider is only slightly smaller than this.

FWIW, I did chop the grip to minimize printing in the bag. Now there is only minor printing if you know what you're looking for, because ... fabric, so if that's something you absolutely want to avoid, you'll probably want to go as small as possible.

Really hoping Mountainman, or really anyone with the skills, picks up the side folding charging handle project again. Not having a handle poking into the laptop area would alleviate my concerns of my screen breaking.

View attachment 15714 View attachment 15713
This post makes me sad. 🙁 That awesome set up is about to be regulated out of legality.

I hope RA is making a lot of replacement buttpad "feet" to replace the tailhook and adapters that are about to be banned (for those that SBR at least some of their guns).
 
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I'm not concerned. The ATF enforces the law. This firearm, as configured, complies with the law. Enforcing not-the-law is outside their purview, though I 100% agree they are going to try, and completely understand why someone may not want to push the issue. Notably if you have a dog.

The Law

Pistols are firearms that are originally designed, made, and intended to fire when held in one hand. This firearm originally came from RA with a brace for the purpose of being fired with one hand.
27 CFR § 478.11 - Meaning of terms.

According to the law, it started life as a pistol. But is it a rifle?

Given RA's original design / make / intention, the firearm was clearly not designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder, thus not a rifle. Nor has it been redesigned or remade by myself to fire from the shoulder, thus still not a rifle. Nor is it an "any other weapon" because that section explicitly carves out an exception for a "pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore".
26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

Okay, so not a rifle. But what about the aftermarket accessories?

Accessories do not do not change the original intention / make / design. For example, irons, dots, lights, muzzle devices, etc. are common pistol accessories, and do not change how many hands the gun was originally intended / made / designed to have on it when fired, thus it is still a pistol. Glocks have all these things, and despite my firing with 2 hands on them for better accuracy and control, they are still pistols.

Federal Law does not define "vertical fore grip", though the ATF has referenced 90º. The stop on this pistol is not 90º. And even if it was, it does not change firearms original design, make, and intention. Nor does it redesign or remake the firearm to fire from the shoulder.

I own other registered NFA items (SBR included). I comply with the law. This is a pistol complying with the law.
 

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I'm not concerned. The ATF enforces the law. This firearm, as configured, complies with the law. Enforcing not-the-law is outside their purview, though I 100% agree they are going to try, and completely understand why someone may not want to push the issue. Notably if you have a dog.

The Law

Pistols are firearms that are originally designed, made, and intended to fire when held in one hand. This firearm originally came from RA with a brace for the purpose of being fired with one hand.
27 CFR § 478.11 - Meaning of terms.

According to the law, it started life as a pistol. But is it a rifle?

Given RA's original design / make / intention, the firearm was clearly not designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder, thus not a rifle. Nor has it been redesigned or remade by myself to fire from the shoulder, thus still not a rifle. Nor is it an "any other weapon" because that section explicitly carves out an exception for a "pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore".
26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions

Okay, so not a rifle. But what about the aftermarket accessories?

Accessories do not do not change the original intention / make / design. For example, irons, dots, lights, muzzle devices, etc. are common pistol accessories, and do not change how many hands the gun was originally intended / made / designed to have on it when fired, thus it is still a pistol. Glocks have all these things, and despite my firing with 2 hands on them for better accuracy and control, they are still pistols.

Federal Law does not define "vertical fore grip", though the ATF has referenced 90º. The stop on this pistol is not 90º. And even if it was, it does not change firearms original design, make, and intention. Nor does it redesign or remake the firearm to fire from the shoulder.

I own other registered NFA items (SBR included). I comply with the law. This is a pistol complying with the law.
Best part: "Notably if you have a dog". LOL. 🤣

I love your logic and pray you're not the one who has to try and litigate this in court. It's going to be expensive at a minimum....and winning with a generally anti-gun jury is always a toss up especially with a prosecutor and bench working incahoots to actively suppress pertinent information. Worst case, they just kill you when they do the raid....

BTW, it's pretty pointless from a layman's perspective to claim a pistol is "designed" to be fired with one hand when EVERY school teaching pistol training today teaches you to primarily use a two handed grip for accuracy and recoil mitigation. Guess all those Glocks/Sigs/1911s, etc. are AOWs since people are using 2 hands to shoot them under this asinine "logic".
 
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Best part: "Notably if you have a dog". LOL. 🤣

I love your logic and pray you're not the one who has to try and litigate this in court. It's going to be expensive at a minimum....and winning with a generally anti-gun jury is always a toss up especially with a prosecutor and bench working incahoots to actively suppress pertinent information. Worst case, they just kill you when they do the raid....

BTW, it's pretty pointless from a layman's perspective to claim a pistol is "designed" to be fired with one hand when EVERY school teaching pistol training today teaches you to primarily use a two handed grip for accuracy and recoil mitigation. Guess all those Glocks/Sigs/1911s, etc. are AOWs since people are using 2 hands to shoot them under this asinine "logic".
Haha, I too prefer to not be raided or stuck in litigation. Though the law is on our side. All they'll be able to do is pound the desk and harass me for a few years. Fun? No. But the most favorable misstep they could make is to continue arguing Pistols are SBRs.

As we know, the 2A protects the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in a militia (United States v. Miller) making SBRs constitutional rights, as they are commonly used in our military, and rights cannot be licensed or taxed (Murdock v. Pennsylvania), and the NFA is explicitly an excise tax.

The NFA is 2 SCOTUS decisions away from evaporation: 1) affirmation that Text, History, and Tradition is the correct analysis for 2A cases and 2) affirmation that NFA items have military utility subject to 2A protections. It's only a matter of time. Sooner, if they force the issue.
 

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Pretty sure my 9.5" bbl'd Ls all fit in 19" tall 3 day packs like that. I think my 12" M fit in a 21" tall bag IIRC. None of those look as gray man though as that laptop bag.
 
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I’m loving @ATX Gun Trader’s optimistic interpretation of the law, personally I hope things go that way too. It’s insane to have to go through these vetting processes for suppressors — it would be like requiring special permission to install seatbelts in a car.
 
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