XCR Forum banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I have very little experience with pistols. My fire arms experience comes from My Dad, who wanted with shotgun and bow, and the good ol Army which was kind enough to make me very proficient with Rifles, carbines, Machine guns and grenade launchers, mmmmmm. But I was never once issued a pistol. Frown.

Now I've had my pistol permit for a bit now and am finally ready to go pick one up. As I have been doing some research as to what would be good for my first hand cannon I am getting a sense that pistols vary in function and design a hell of a lot more than the rifles and machine guns I'm used to. So I was looking to get some feedback on the different actions for a pistol to narrow my search. Single, Double only, Single and Double? Oh and I get single and double but what the hell does "safe action" mean? Some of the pistols I have been considering, like the XD, are double action only. Does this mean its going to have a heavy trigger pull?

Any input would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,533 Posts
The XD trigger isn't bad, but with a bit of work on it, it's actually quite good. Reliability is pretty decent too, as is durability.

The 'safe action' is essentially where the striker is in a 'half-cocked' condition. The trigger stroke pulls the striker the rest of the way rearward, and releases it.

As with the XD, the Glock triggers aren't all that great at all - but can become quite functional with a good trigger job.

It's my opinion that the trigger should ALWAYS work the same way. A double-action pistol is just a missed first shot for me. Sucks actually, 'cause I like Sig pistols - and they're all [ETA: in the models I like] double-action. DAO is an answer in search of a question.

My recommendation is to go and buy whatever feels best to you - if your trigger finger touches easily (remember room for gloves if you can) and your hand is positioned properly, then it'll line up on your eye easily. That's important.

Then take it to the next course you can schedule. I've been through the Gunsite courses, and thought quite highly of them - there are other courses for less than half the cost though, and at BETTER than the current offerings (again, my opinion).

Holster, belt, and spare mag carrier aren't options. Buy the best you can first thing off. I'm a big advocate of night sights as well. 6 spare mags is pretty much a minimum - I try to keep at least a couple dozen mags on hand.

In the end, a pistol is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. Front Sight instructors always say "the pistol will do if you will do", and that's true in my experience. But being from the 'old school', we practiced LOTS of malfunction drills...........

After the course, if it's done right, you'll have a much greater understanding of what you need and what works for you. Swapping is always an option after that ;D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
923 Posts
I wont begin to tell you what pistol you should get they are very subjective, but I like my pistols being either single action or double action only, I do not like the weight of my trigger pull changing after the first shot. A double action is typically a heavier pull then a single action since it is doing 2 things at once.

My advice is try multiple different pistols and calibers and find what YOU SHOOT BEST with. I personally shoot very well with my Glock 26 but I hate the way it feels in my hand, my 1911 points very naturally for me but I do not shoot it as well as my Glock 26. So I would say try as many different models and calibers you can. :2cents:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
If you want a good quality pistol in a wide range of options, SAO, DAO, DA/SA, steel, alloy, polymer, manual safety, decocker, small, medium, large, .22, 9mm, .40, .45ACP then I would recommend having a look at the CZ range.

Pick your poison....... ;D

www.cz-usa.com

I am prejudiced, I love them and own them...... :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
find a range that rents pistols, or even better a buddy that has some, try them for yourself. :2cents:

BTW here's a nice explanation of a proper grip. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Go try everything else and then go buy an XD. ;D. Of course thats just my opinion. Just don't confuse the DA action of the XD with the typical DA/SA action, they are two totally different animals with different feels.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,143 Posts
What they said. You're right in that pistol shooting tends to be more instinctive in many ways than rifle shooting. Especially if you add in the consideration that if you ever have to use it "for keeps", it will probably be fast and close. That doesn't mean you shouldn't work on good habits, but like the guys above said, the pistol that fits your hand and naturally points well for you will probably be your best bet.

I would also recommend trying as many different types as you can. You'll probably know it when you find the right one for you.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,475 Posts
pistol preference usually has to be developed by the individual since we're all so different.

I don't like da/sa. I like my glocks, xd, and 1911. there are plenty of worthwhile choices out there, get out and try some :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I wish I could get a license to carry an Mg..... Probably wouldn't be nearly as practical though....

Wish I knew some people with pistols, but all my friends have either not finished there ridiculously long license process or where put off by the ridiculously long license process. Sigh... So I'll be going around the local gunshops to get the feel for what I can.

A range that rents pistols... honestly never thought of that. Is it common?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,113 Posts
A range that rents pistols... honestly never thought of that. Is it common?
Yeah buddy! Most of the ranges I go to have ranges in them. I'd say its 50% or better. Some of the ranges have decent deals to where if you rent a pistol from them and buy their ammo you can trade in different guns. As long as you don't change calibers you can shoot 10 different guns in an outing for $50 or so. It ends up being a pretty good deal and you get a lot of experience with different guns. Thats how I found out exactly what I like, and don't like.

I think if you go to a gunstore and shoot some pistols you may be suprised whaty ou like. The gun that feels comfortable and like it was made for your hand is out there. When you find it, if at all possible shoot it to make sure its just as nice when fired. And when you do that you've got the right gun. Be careful, because you'll want to buy buy buy just like anything else!

Personally I like CZ pistols the best. CZ 75 was one of my favorites, so I bought a CZ 40P. Thats my self defense buddy for the bedroom and I trust it with that position. You'll find something out there for you! But asking what is the best pistol will ultimately vary as widely as the people that have the opinions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,296 Posts
I wish I could get a license to carry an Mg..... Probably wouldn't be nearly as practical though....

Wish I knew some people with pistols, but all my friends have either not finished there ridiculously long license process or where put off by the ridiculously long license process. Sigh... So I'll be going around the local gunshops to get the feel for what I can.

A range that rents pistols... honestly never thought of that. Is it common?
Not where you live, unfortunately. I lived in the Northeast for 30 years, then moved to Florida about 19 years ago. It was like getting out of jail! In most parts of the country, if you talk a about getting a "pistol license," it means you've gotten a ccw; most folks here don't realize that in most parts of the Northeast, you have to get a license just to BUY a pistol, and usually a separate license for each pistol.

Try calling some ranges over in Pennsylvania and find out which ones rent pistols. Try to shoot a Glock, a SIG, a 1911 and a revolver, at least. They're pretty representative of what's available, and a good starting point, at least.

Or come to Florida and we can get you REALLY set up <g>. There are places here that will rent you a submachine gun....

tk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,533 Posts
Personally I like CZ pistols the best. CZ 75 was one of my favorites
CZ pistols are not only a tremendous choice, but they're a particularly good value as well.
For a while, I carried an original CZ75 (not the CZ75B) and it always performed as desired.

Later, I bought a 75B, thinking I'd have two of the same pistol..... uh, no. Dropping the firing pin out of a 75 is easy, the same maneuver on the 75B requires a punch and hammer.

I've made it a goal of mine to sell off a 75B and a bunch of mags for it this month. I doubt I'll ever sell off my original 75 though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
First, choose a caliber. For a first time pistol owner my recommendation would be a 9mm. Recoil is manageable and ammo is cheap, and if you buy some premium hollow point ammo the caliber is more than adequate for self defense.

Then, decide whether or not this is going to be a carry piece. If it is, you're going to need something that's relatively light, on the smaller side and, ideally, designed so it doesn't snag on clothes. If you don't intend to carry I'd get something larger (it will have less felt recoil a longer site radius and IMHO will be more fun to shoot).

Once you've made these decisions, as others have said, it really comes down to personal preference but I think it's worth spending the money on one of the top makers since you really do get what you pay for. So, try a couple of Sigs (p226 is a great full size gun). Try an HK. Try a Glock (Glock 17 very popular full size choice). Try a S&W, a Springfield XD.
Didn't mean to leave off CZ but I just have no experience with these.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
My first was a Sig P226 in 9mm and I love it. It fits me great and I shoot it well. I'm on the hunt for my second and have decided to up the ante to a 1911 (in .45). A friend of mine is looking for his first and I've gone along with him to various shops. He shot my P226 and decided that was the one for him but in .40 S&W.....That is until he held the HK45 right after the P226 Elite. He's decided on the HK45 since it fit him so well. It was an instant reaction too. Once he picked it up he knew. The interchangeable grips really appealed to him. I held it and almost gave up on my 1911 pursuits. He is going .45 since it'll be his first and possibly only handgun. The HK P30 is very similar in 9mm if you go that route.

As others have said, definitely handle as many guns as you can get your mits on. Preferably, shoot as many as you can. Either friend's guns or range rentals.

I think I read you were in/near PA. I used to go to Targetmaster on the PA/DE border and they had a nice selection of rental guns.....even some full auto >:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,533 Posts
Then, decide whether or not this is going to be a carry piece. If it is, you're going to need something that's relatively light, on the smaller side
FWIW, I put more of a premium on light weight than I do smallness.

My first mentor was a Rhodesian ex-patriat. He carried a 1911 longslide as his concealled carry piece, for a pretty good while.

My carry piece for the last few years is a chopped G37 - full sized Glock like the 17, but in 45 GAP (SLIGHTLY wider slide), with the grip chopped so it takes G38 (the compact size, same as a G19) mags.

Before that, I carried a G17 in the same configuration. Before that was a 1911 Government Model, with spatterings of other automatics in there as well. All were full sized.

The thing is, the grip sticking out will "print". You can effectively hide a 12" steel bar 1" in diameter, no problems. That grip is the problem. A compact grip helps matters, without question.

Understand though that over the two decades I've been packing, I've never been questioned about what I had under my shirt. Even when there was mild printing - I ran some experiments to see if people would notice. They don't. That includes police.

As for Glocks, I've standardized my group on the G17. Specifically the second generation G17. For novice shooters, having 18 rounds on board minimizes the number of reloads needed - which is a good thing for folks not as well practiced as they ought to be. Not that I advocate not practicing, but everyone has to start somewhere.

Like all things though, Glocks break. I've seen 'em die in classes, just like I've seen other builds break and malf. Just much less often. My personal opinion is that a Glock should have the sights changed out, the trigger connector replaced, the trigger return and striker safety plunger springs replaced, and the recoil spring guide rod replaced. After that, they're typically good to go for an extended period. That doesn't mean I don't keep spare parts though!

For what it's worth!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
Do what Jack-O said, then try an XD right next to it and even an M&P. From a generic point of view, XD's and M&P's in 9mm have less felt recoil than the Glocks. M&P a tad less than XD. I think the XD has the best natural point without modification. Any of those 3 manufacturers should do you ok. Not to mention the XDm 9mm is 19+1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Do what Jack-O said, then try an XD right next to it and even an M&P. From a generic point of view, XD's and M&P's in 9mm have less felt recoil than the Glocks. M&P a tad less than XD. I think the XD has the best natural point without modification. Any of those 3 manufacturers should do you ok. Not to mention the XDm 9mm is 19+1.
Ya, how does that work when NY says anything over 10 rounds is evil? Do I have to get special magazines or somthing??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Hounddog said about what I would say.
Start with caliber choice then weight.
The 10 round issue also affects you. The great thing about the Clinton gun ban/ mag capacity law was it created a revolution in gun design. Small guns packed full of 10 rounds. I think Taurus mastered this.
If you are not going to carry this, then size and weight don't matter as much. Heavier guns are more fun at the range. (longer sight radius more recoil control)

ACTIONS EXPLAINED:
We all need to get used to the term "striker fired." I will explain at the end.

SA = the pull of the trigger does not move the hammer (cock the gun).
DA = pulling the trigger moves the hammer.
DA/SA = Double action to single action. The gun, at rest, is not cocked. When the gun is needed the first shot is DA. the action of the slide cocks the hammer for the next shot. PRACTICE: you need to shoot 1/3 of your shots in DA. The mistake people make is they load 15 rounds and start pulling the trigger. So 7% of there practice is DA. No wonder they can't hit anything on the first DA pull.

Glock is classified as a DA by the NIJ because the striker is in a half cocked state. Glock's term "Safe Action."
The XD is classified as SA by the NIJ because the striker is fully cocked.
Both these fit into the category of "Striker Fired." SF pistols have the same trigger pull feel for every shot.

I love the XD; I have two. The Glock grip angle is more like a revolver. Which made it a great police transition gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,533 Posts
FWIW, one of the guys at the SWAT course had a M&P in 357 Sig.

I thought that was kind of odd for an issue weapon, but that's what the state police (his work) issued.

He said they ran the 357 Sig Glock for a while, until they experienced multiple slide breakages. Then they transitioned to the S&W and had no other problems.

I don't like the M&P, but just because the grip is too long for my hand - I can't get on the trigger well. Other than that, it surely appeared to be a good build. Just not for me.

I think throughout the course, it only malfed once or twice. About twice less than my 1911 did, and the same as the XD 45ACP did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
332 Posts
ALOT of people swear by Glock, and they are good guns, but as many have said, get one in your hands and better yet, fire one before you commit. I have tried for years to get used to Glocks, even owned one at one point, but the grip NEVER felt right in my hand and in the end i traded off my glock, because it never felt comfortable to shoot.

I'm looking into getting a 9mm and I'm considering the XD, XDm, M&P, and Sig 229. That's not a bad place to start along with the Glock 17 or 19 (depending on which size you want). Get each in your hand, weed out any you don't like the feel of and try to shoot whatever is remaining.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top