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There's been a lot of chatter on THR etc.

There is some updated guidance released to differentiate between CONUS and non CONUS sales of brass and the needs and requirements to demill non CONUS sales.

This got blown as a concern that ALL sales would be treated the same and out of an over abundamce of legal caution this popped.


The actual guidance from DRMS, relevant section underlined and italic

DRMS-I 4160.14
Section 3 - Special Processing
Cartridge Cases (Fired Brass) - Expended
Definition/Description
Ammunition components consisting of cartridge and shell casings are subject to the
International Traffic In Arms Regulations set forth in subchapter M of 22 Code of Federal
Regulations (22 CFR 120.1. et.seq). Once expended, they are processed as fired brass scrap,
with precautions to avoid improper release of unexpended cases.
Policy References/Authority
DOD 4160.21-M and DOD 4160.21-M-1.
Unique Processing Information/How to Manage
Receiving: The ETID/DTID must include the appropriate DEMIL code or clear-text statement for each
receipt. The turn-in must contain certification that the residue is inert. Two signatures, a certifier and a
verifier are required. Opening sealed/banded containers invalidates the inert certification. DRMOs will
inspect what is readily visible (open boxes and drums) to verify the absence of contaminants, such as
live rounds. No other level of inspection is required.
Not authorized for receipt from DLA Depot Recycling Control Points (RCPs).
NOTE:
Warehousing/Storage: Storage will be accomplished in a properly assigned DEMIL Code “A” or “B”
scrap pile.
Reutilization/Transfers/Donations: GSA regional offices are authorized to approve transfer to SASPs,
for donation to state and local governments, surplus expended cartridge cases (under .50 caliber) for
reloading of the cartridges.
DEMIL: All expended small arms cartridge cases (50 caliber and under) are assigned DEMIL Code “E.”
Expended shotgun shell cases are assigned DEMIL Code “A.” Expended artillery cases are assigned
DEMIL Code “B.”
Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading
market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity
condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End
Use Certificates are required for these sales.
Abandonment/Destruction: Used if specifically directed on a case-by-case basis.
Property Accounting: DEMIL performed code “9” is authorized for casings assigned DEMIL Code “E”
but no DEMIL is required. No additional unique property accounting required.

The provisions of this publication apply to all non-A-76 sites and Government Personnel at A-76 sites. This
publication may be mandatory or advisory to the Service Provider, as stipulated in the Performance Work
Statement.

Section 3 - Special Processing S3-79 February 2009
 

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I agree everalm. Georgia-arms is probably just overreacting and trying to play it safe until they are told other wise. Does anyone have a scanned copy of this on DoD letterhead? If, so provide it to Georgia-Arms and hopefully they will wake up. :(
 

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Hmm, so if you were going to try to restrict the sales of reloading components, you might want to dry up a major source of brass...

tk
 

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OMG... PEOPLE LISTEN UP. :mad: Read the damn document on page 79 which references Fired Brass:

Sales: Sales in CONUS are authorized for casings 50 caliber and under (to satisfy local/reloading
market/demand only). The appropriate sales method will be determined based on location, commodity
condition, etc. as well as any current, unique sales/scrap processing initiatives that may be in place. End
Use Certificates are required for these sales.
Why do you guys not understand this. :duh:
 

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I don't see the fuss, the writing has been around for years, started in 1994, revised every few years after that. Ammo is still around, and at my walmart, there's 7000+ rounds of 5.56 federal sitting there collecting dust. I picked some more up today and some 9mm value packs...
 

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Where the heck are you? You say that there is 7000 rounds of Federal 5.56X39? What do they want for it? That's amazing and very unusual for Walmart or any regular retail store, even Cabellas, etc.......I appreciate your giving us the details.
Kind regards and thanks,
Sinker






I don't see the fuss, the writing has been around for years, started in 1994, revised every few years after that. Ammo is still around, and at my walmart, there's 7000+ rounds of 5.56 federal sitting there collecting dust. I picked some more up today and some 9mm value packs...
 

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well, its the second closest walmart to me, closest to my work, its in Hudson FL, on US 19, they are 39.95 a box, you can get it per box or per 400 round case. They have a TON, and keep getting more. It's a bit pricey, but since availability is an issue, i'll at least get a little at a time. The 9mm was 19.95 for 100 rounds, so that wasn't too bad at all.
 

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Well, FL is a good ways away from me. I live in NC. You mention $39.95 per box, how many rounds in the "box"?
Thanks
SINKER






well, its the second closest walmart to me, closest to my work, its in Hudson FL, on US 19, they are 39.95 a box, you can get it per box or per 400 round case. They have a TON, and keep getting more. It's a bit pricey, but since availability is an issue, i'll at least get a little at a time. The 9mm was 19.95 for 100 rounds, so that wasn't too bad at all.
 

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Take note of the letter below, sent to georgia arms:


Dear Valued Customer:

Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

Thank you,

DOD Surplus
15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
Scottsdale, AZ 85254

here's the link to the site documenting it....

http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

Doesn't sound like a misunderstanding to me

tk
 

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Thanks for the post tk. I was just floored to read that letter sent to Georgia Arms. As someone who once worked for DoD, I have had countless experience with people within the DoD community telling me I cannot do this or we can't do that. My answer to them was "show me where it says that in a regualtion or directive." 9.9% of the time, no one could show me. There were instances in which they did, but it was very, very rare.

Now, I refer you all back to the document that defines the operating procedures for DLA; and in turn DoD Suprlus, et al. The letter that was sent to Georgia Arms stated that "Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B."

This in FACT is not the case. The referenced document is dated FEBRUARY 2009 so it is not old and/or outdated.

DEMIL: All expended small arms cartridge cases (50 caliber and under) are assigned DEMIL Code “E.”
Expended shotgun shell cases are assigned DEMIL Code “A.” Expended artillery cases are assigned
DEMIL Code “B.”
Source: http://www.drms.dla.mil/publications/4160.14/section3/s3.pdf (Page 79)

.50 caliber and under are DEMIL Code "E" NOT "B" like the letter says.

You can clearly see that someone at DoD surplus has made a very big mistake. One that may actually cost them their job. I have seen this happen before in DoD. I have seen careers end because of it. Particularly if it becomes a public relations shit storm, and it looks like it just may.
 

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Reinterpreting existing regulations is a very old political trick. I would strongly suspect that whoever did the "reinterpreting" got a little direction from someone in the executive branch. It's a little too convenient to be a fluke.


tk
 

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Looks ominous to me! Never underestimate the cleverness of politicians and lawyers (frequently one and the same... being an attorney should be an automatic disqualification for public office; we have enough trouble with amateur liars!
 
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