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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not sure now many of us remember the deals made with the Clinton administration by the former owners on Smith and Wesson,but here is some information that I wasn't aware of....
This is from the The Virginia Citizens Defense League,
http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html#Smith & Wesson

Smith and Wesson

THE NEW OWNERS HAVE DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FIX THE EGREGIOUS AGREEMENT THE PREVIOUS OWNERS SIGNED WITH THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. OUR CALL FOR A BOYCOTT OF SMITH & WESSON STILL STANDS!

The Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. is calling for all supporters of the Second Amendment to vote with their pocket books, and refuse to purchase any products from Smith & Wesson. This boycott is the only viable course of action against a corporate management which has agreed with the Clinton administration to impose regulations on the American people which they could not get from our elected representatives. Smith & Wesson has agreed to impose on its dealers requirements that they not sell guns at gun shows when private sales occur without a background check, even though such sales would otherwise be lawful. Further, each sale of Smith & Wesson firearms must include a written certification that the purchaser has obtained training in the safe handling and storage of firearms.

A more important issue is that guns cannot be transferred as allowed under the Brady Law if the background check is not completed in the legally allowed time. One must wait for the background check to be complete, even if it is dragged out for months. Remember how the National Instant Check System was down for days on the weekend of the so called "Million Mom March?"

The sale of Smith & Wesson to a US based company is irrelevant to the issue. Neither the old company (Tompkins), nor the new company (then called Saf-T-Hammer), have done anything to void the March 17, 2000 agreement. At the February 2002 S. H. O. T. Show in Las Vegas, then Smith & Wesson President, Bob Scott, admitted to me and another activist, that the agreement is still in place, and if we get a new US President, it could immediately be enforced. Please look at the agreement to remind yourself as to how egregious is at:

http://www.hud.gov/library/bookshelf18/pressrel/gunagree.html

The agreement contains nearly all of the items on the gun haters wish list. Please look at the web page. If it doesn't make you angry, you are not a supporter of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. On principle, we oppose those who would ban Smith & Wesson's new gun, or any other gun. However, we hope no supporter of our gun rights will support Smith & Wesson by purchasing it, or any other of their guns, until they void the HUD agreement.

Let's be clear; Smith & Wesson cannot be allowed to hide behind the notion that we are better off that it is owned by a US company, than an UK company. So far, both companies are exactly the same; they both are supportive of the agreement they made with Clinton's HUD.

Related Links:
http://www.gunowners.org/a03210 0.htm
http://www.ustreas.g ov/press/releases/ls551.htm
http://www.lnei lsmith.com/smithandwessonmustdie.html
http://www.actioname rica.org/guns/swbetray.html
http://hunting. about.com/library/weekly/aa010515.htm
GRPC Resolution Concerning Smith & Wesson
 

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Let me see if I get this straight: They are currently ignoring the deal they made with the devil and waiting for the other shoe to drop? WHat happens if they go back on the deal?

You can tell that the company was being run by lawyers when they did this......
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm guessing that the Bush administration didn't make them fulfill the contract,but with the current crop of goobers who knows what will happen.
 

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Lemme get this straight.

One of the oldest and most prolific gun makers in the country, single-handedly responsible for selling tens of millions of handguns to us, is not gunowner friendly?

I guess a 2002 conversation with you at the SHOT show, and having signed an unenforced/unenforcable agreement with a corrupt administration under duress, erases their hundred+ year track record.

Gotcha, thanks for the update.

BTW, I'm on my way to buy another S&W later today -- a 3" 686 Plus, fresh off the assembly line. They're making more and better guns now than they ever have, IMO. That must be due to their unfriendly stance towards gun owners.
 

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I know what you're saying, but there are gun companies that are not particularly friendly to civilian gun owners. HK is one of them.

Don't know what to make of this. There was a time during the latter part of the Clinton era when gun companies were in a panic over liability suits and government, legislative attacks and government harassment.

Remember the furor over the "Ruger letter" to Congress, or the comments Ruger made on TV about honest men not needing more than a 10-round mag? Ruger's comments were used in part to justify the AWB.

When doom is on the horizon, companies make bad decisions.

My first centerfire handgun was a S&W 28 with a six-inch barrel. Bought it for $187 back around 1975. Still got it . Fine weapon.

tk
 

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Yea, they got me recently also. I always wanted an M57 in 41 magnum. The shop where I bought my XCR had one and I made the mistake of saying "too bad you don't have the Marlin lever action to go along with it!" Ouch! Yea, got that too! Good products.

SheepDog :2rifle:


BTW, I'm on my way to buy another S&W later today -- a 3" 686 Plus, fresh off the assembly line. They're making more and better guns now than they ever have, IMO. That must be due to their unfriendly stance towards gun owners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I guess a 2002 conversation with you at the SHOT show, and having signed an unenforced/unenforcable agreement with a corrupt administration under duress, erases their hundred+ year track record.
It was not a conversation with me,I explicitly said that the information came from the Virginia Citizens Defense League and gave a link to it.Second ,I never said it erases Smith & Wessons reputation,but they are not the same compnay now as they were then,you have to judge by their action now,not only by their past record,Benedict Arnold was not always a traitor.Third I never endorsed the idea as true,just put the information here and let everyone decide for themselves.
I know their are other companies out there that are not very civilian gun owner friendly,I won't do business with them.You do what you feel you should as will I.I Also never said they aren't making quality weapons,in fact I am of the same opinion that they are making as good or better weapon than they ever have.If however the information I posted turns out to be true,and The B.O. administration tries to force them to live up to their contracts,will you still go buy a S&W if they comply?
 

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I could care less, really. S&W makes crap. Well, except maybe their revolvers. As for semi-automatics, they are crap and not innovative, but rather duplicative. Besides, the question comes down to how may dealers are willing to abide by the agreement. I know I wouldn't if I was a dealer. If a customer came in wanting a S&W and asked me why I don't have any, I would inform the customer of the issue and how spineless S&W is and that the customer would have to show all that stuff about training and storage.

:2cents:
 

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S&W makes crap. Well, except maybe their revolvers.

:2cents:
Yeah, it's pretty hard to beat the 686 and 642. Especially now that they are making the Classics again:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=48302&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15701&top_category=15701

I especially like the 42 Classic:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=92449&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=48302

In addition, even though I do not own one, the M&P pistols have met with positive reviews.

Their 1911, despite their firing pin safeties and external extractors, are quite good in my personal experience.

While I can't speak to the recent S&W AR15s, I can personally attest to the outstanding quality and performance of an early model M&P15T.

Finally, I have dealt with the S&W for service/warrantee issues twice and they were incomparable! Once for a 1911 that I bought second hand and someone had mangled the grip safety making it non-functional. S&W replaced it no questions, no charge despite the fact that I was not the original owner, the gun was easily over a year old, and clearly someone had preformed botched gunsmithing on it. Then, for a 642 that I had purchased new. Due to my own fault, the entire frame needed to be replaced. They replaced the frame with an identically serial numbered new one despite my role in it's breakage.

So, despite their past, S&W is making some great firearms and providing great service. Clearly they are being responsive to customers' needs and wants. What more can you ask?

Shoot, Chik-fil-a is closed on Sunday for religious reasons... It sucks when you want to eat there on Sunday, but it doesn't make their chicken sandwiches any less delicious!
 

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DTOM,
Thanks for the post. Scratch S&W along with Ruger off my list of guns to buy. Some people don't understand or just don't care. I appreciate you bringing this up.



Sean
 

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Shoot, Chik-fil-a is closed on Sunday for religious reasons... It sucks when you want to eat there on Sunday, but it doesn't make their chicken sandwiches any less delicious!
We had a German exchange student a few years back who still comes to visit every once in a while. Every time he comes, he's gotta get chil-fil-a nuggets. AND make a trip to the range.

tk
 

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Let me pick up that new M&P45 I ordered then maybe I will read this a little closer. I don't need anything from Smith but the M&P semi-autos and revolvers.
 

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I have no love for S&W, they have no backbone and little ethics. They make a decent revolver...but so do many others. I see no reason to give these Clintonista collaborators my money. If we don't use our buying power to leverage them why should they care for us (It's a company after all)?
 
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