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The first non-XCR thread- Getting another Sig tomorrow

3290 Views 16 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Aussie Arms
Yep, what the title said, but not a 556.

My third Sig will be a 229R DAK.

I sold my first Sig to help get (i.e. finance) my XCR. It was a P220. Great HG but the fact is I get .40 cal for free and not .45, and the P220 is a cannon to carry by today's standards that only holds 7 to 8 rounds. Even my issued Berretta 96D is a huge chunk to carry off-duty (i.e. attempt to conceal). I get to get rid of that come this Thursday and Friday as I transition to a Hk P2000. I can actually shoot pretty good with the 96D and it serves as a great club when out of ammo compared to a wiffle bat that polymer guns are after your out of ammo. The longer barrel didn't hurt for accuracy either. I still have my Sig P239 SAS w/the DAk trigger.

But the fact is a pistol is better served as a concealed weapon and if it is not a concealed carry, such as typical police and mil duty carry, it should be light, comfortable, accurate to shoot, and reliable HG currently available in the market today. If you have to worry about needing a club after you are out of ammo then you need to work on your shooting skills, and if your aim isn't the problem, such as that when confronting hordes of evil zombies like you see in Resident Evil, then it you need to work at not bitting off more than you can chew and better escape plans.

What I just metioned above also goes w/rifles. If the older, heavier, and longer guns were better than the newer ones, we'd still be shooting flint-locks. Right?

A P220 is great if you are travelling in bear country and don't have to worry about carrying it concealed, however a .45 will marginally do better than a .40 when it comes to pissing off a bear but at least I'll get more rounds to piss them off with in a .40. If you gota worry about bears then .44 Mag and up are your only choice besides Dawg Chapmans Channel Trailer Park #5 cologne OC canister in the family value pack 5 gal. container only available at Wal-Mart.

And a word on DAO triggers. My first experience w/DAO was when I joined the BP almost 10 years ago. Before that I was in 2 agencies and the Army w/the 1911 and 92F. Ever since I went to DAO it took a bit to get used to but now I wouldn't have it any other way. I've experienced HG w/external safeties and I think any external safety is a mistake in any HG to include the guys that carry locked and cocked 1911. But that is my opinion. A 1911 in the locked and cocked position will only invite a possibility of debris accumulation that may cover the firing pin such as mud getting packed in, or other "stuff". I know many 1911 carriers that get pissed when I say things like that, but c'mon, if faced in a deadly encounter a good chance you will not know it's comming the the first thing MOST ppl do is try to get as low as possible and not (or shouldn't) give a crap what you have strapped to you. I'm sure this isn't a common problem w/the 1911, but the 1911 has been around, well since 1911. Served a loooong time and it was ahead of it's time. And the only logical choice for several decades. But now we have many choices, so let's put Pop's 1911 to pasture.

Back to external safeties. If faced in a deadly encounter the last thing you need to do is fumble w/a safety, specifically a safety that requires you to manipulate your thumb or finger in order to deactivate it. At least compared to a rifle, like the AR, AND XCR, the safety is right there at your thumb and therefore more instinctive to manipulate. But long guns are a far cry to put into action than HG's. My primary safety on my HG is the holster, specifically one that has a retention device and covers the trigger. My second safety is my nose picking AND trigger finger. So to put a HG into action you must first manipulate the gun from it's holstered position to the aimed in ready position. That's at least 4 steps in itself, reach/grasp, unsnap (if so), draw, aim in (to include sight aquisition), and fire if warranted. That makes it 5 steps now. Now add in flip safety, 6 steps, and shame on you chamber a round, step 8 (yes some are not comfortable w/chambered rounds, and mil does not allow it for many which is BS). Nearly all HG (at least all that are worth a damn) now have some sort of internal safety that will prevent a (true) AD if dropped on the hammer w/round chambered.

Sig had the right idea all along when it came out w/the p226 and others, and Glock with their , well Glocks. No external safety!! I distinctively remember in the Army w/a 1911, and cop w/a Berretta 92F, having to manipulate a darn safety. I carried the 92F chambered, safety off. What always p-o'd me was at the range I would draw to fire only to pull the trigger getting a 1 oz long trigger pull and nothing. Then flipping the safety off and being the last one to fire my shot(s) b/c the damned safety got engaged inadvertenly. What BS!!! I know some folks are not confident without some sort of safety on a HG. That is fine, but I suggest be more confident with that HG of yours. After all EVERYONE gets a HG for protection except dirtbags... well even them too sorta.

That brings me as to why I like DAO triggers. I'd say the BP and other agencies were right when it came to getting DAO in duty guns. All one has to do is watch the LVPD (or SO) video of the cop covering another officer as he hand cuffed a guy on the ground.


(oohh!?!? And what gun is that she has????)

Safety #1, holster. Safety #2, external. Safety #3, FINGER!!!!

In a stress encounter your senses are heightened, and you will over compensate you motor skills w/o knowing you are doing it. "Mommy you are squeezing my arm too tight" ever ring a bell when your mom was trying to get you to do (or not do) something while trying to calmly talk to you in a public place ring a bell? Shooting requires FINE motor skills, something that goes out the door at first instant in a deadly force encounter. Only repetitive training and drilling will compensate to use fine motor skills in a stressed condition. DA/SA triggers on HG is bad moo-ju in these events. That fine trigger that you claim help you get 2" groups at 25 yards will now become a 18 foot string of shots to the right of your target at 10 feet in a stressed encounter. Why? Because that nose picker that you pull the trigger with has now the strength of Popeye pumped into it and now transfer 50 lbs. of pressure to that 2 lb. piece of metal and plastic that has a lever which required 10 lbs of steady pull to fire the first shot and only 4 lbs after you take up the trigger slack to fire the shots after that. All that while you are trying to place a 1mm dot between 2, 1mm dots lined up and pointed towards someone trying to kill you.

DAO triggers are consistent and heavier than a SA trigger w/o slack. Same shot every single time.

It's up to personal preferance in the end. No matter what you have, pratice, practice, and practice. Practice as you would in a real life encounter. Not just picking the gun up from a range table (tail gate for you...err, I meant us hicks), but from the holster. Practice right hand only and left hand only. Practice holding a flashlight, a phone, or a double martini a-la James Bond style. Practice shooting prone, on your back, side, ass, sitting on the toilet, while on top of you girlfriend, simulated of course. After all she might be married and he has a gun! Practice shooting standing and pointed sorta, kinda down. Say about the distance from your bedroom door to your bed, just as you would after you just walked in on your wife w/her boyfriend (just kidding-DON'T).

Practice, do it safely, and then practice some more.

Just not with a Sig 556 because they suck!! (Just for you VB-lol)

That is all for now. You may return to your regular lives.

I couldn't sleep. Thought I'd kill some time.
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Just not with a Sig 556 because they suck!! (Just for you VB-lol)

LOL. I think I am flagged with leading the anti-556 parade. What can I say, 90% of my clients are military or LEO related and I get to see 55x's fairly often and I am spoiled. I have certain expectations and I will complain like a 3 year old till I get what I want, which would make lots of people happy.
Thought you'd like that one. I think reading your's and I think Bolster's threads on SF is what made me decide on ordering my XCR. I actually waited for the 556 before I decided on one of the 2. Actually it was also compared to the FS2000. That along with other rave XCR reviews and about a dozen negative issues on the 556 the first month it was out. What eliminated the FS2000 almost immediately was the lack of a last round BHO.

I knew the few productions problems would have been fixed quickly on the 556 but as many, I was hoping it would have mimicked the 55X more so than what they came out with. i could deal with the AR magwell and I thought that was the plus. The stock, lack of 55X sights, and something hardly ever mentioned, I'd preferred the 55X AK style trigger guard. I know they are aesthetics features and the heart of the 55X is there. But I'm not enough of a 55X nut to want to spend an additional $2-3K's to make it a 55X copy. I most likely will get a 556 to throw into the safe before the next ban though. If given a shoice between an AR and a 556 I'd taken the 556 regardless that there are more doo-dads for the AR and I am a Sig fan, but the 556 isn't a P229. In the end the XCR was the obvious choice.

About ARFKKOM, I asked Ed Avila Sr. clemency to be unbanned but I have seen you duking it out with the "556 IS THE BEST RIFLE IN THE WHOLE WORLD" crowd who refuses to see what is obvious. Yeah, they fixed the rails, the finish matches (not a big deal w/me) and it comes w/BUPS (back up popsicle sticks). I checked one out at the local gun store w/the new sights.

Side by side the XCR beats the AR and 556 period. I think you've even seen my write ups on SF. It does share a few AR features (Mag/magwell, mag release, PG-but that's changeable, trigger guards and trigger, selector lever location only) but it departs and expands immensly in the other areas. RA did it right and even they had initial production issues, but very few. I know they keep on bringing up the M96, but as you (or was it another) said no company will continue to support a product that really didn't sell well, regardless if it was a superior product to the standard options. Ask anyone that still has an FJ40 Toyota Landcruiser. Heck even now Toy came out w the new FJ Cruiser and most people thought it was a total new vehicle not noticing the name, grill, certain styling and even color scheme are exact copy of the old FJ40 that has been in the US since 1980.

BTW, I just got my issued Hk P2000 that I transitioned on Thursday and Friday. I like that gun alot. It is quickly becomming my #1 HG even over my beloved Sigs. It is taking some getting used to the LEM trigger over the nearly 10 years Beretta DAO. I still prefer the Sig DAK triggers though.

I will post some pics later with the P229R DAK and Hk P2000 along with the XCR, but for a comapnion HG to the XCR either one would be great.

In addition I took my XCR to the range for the other instructors to try it out. They liked it alot. Then I demonstrated an emergency re-load. That sold it to them. As it stands right now the XCR is the fastest by a bunch, followed by the M4/AR's, then the rest. FS2000 not only does not have the last round BHO (some claim europeans like it that way-BS) but to add it has rubber rivets to prevent drop free mags?

In the BP we do not teach "catch the mag" emergency reloads (Army/Marines doesn't either and I don't know anyone who does). In fact if you have to grab that mag for whatever reason in order to remove it, such as in a jam, it gets ripped from the magwell and thrown in one motion. That means one will ahve to do it on every mag exchange on a FS2000. Rocked in mags get the same treatment. I get a fresh mag while I hit the mag release. If I can't point the weapon down and let the mag go I knock it foward w/the new mag. That is even quicker than what the FS2000 allows.

The week after next I have a week of range instructor duty. I will be taking my XCR every day. We also tested my Pmags to include running it over with a g'mnt Chevy Tahoe full of equipment, both wheels. It held up. The lead range guy was impressed but as it stands our agency forbids plastic mags (b/c of other plastic mags before pmags). I agreed to leave my 4 pmags for training purposes in exchange for 4 Hk SA80 mags. Not bad exchage. But I am sold on the pmags at around $15 a piece!!

More to follow later.............
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I just took delevery of my new Sig P220 Elite Stainless and it is SWEET! It is one of the first ones produced and have been waiting since May for delivery, and boy the wait was worth it. The balance is great, the finish is great, and the trigger, all I can say is that if you haven't tried a new Sig with the SRT (Short Reset Trigger) system go find one and try it. It is one of the very best "out of the box" triggers you can buy.

Take Care!
Now take the added step and send it off to Robar to have it coated in NP3. I did that to three of my pistols, a P239, a P220ST, and a P229 several years ago. It looks and works so well that I'm about to send my P226ST off to have it done to it. I like NP3 so well that I had the internals on my FAL done in it (pics posted in "My first FAL and XCR" thread).
Cool, it works that well? I will proably wait a while until I get the Hard Chrome Threaded barrel so I can keep the thing quiet. It is the same barrel they use in the P220 Combat. They fit the frame to the barrel because of the hard chrome.

Did I mention that the P220 Elite, stainless is "SWEET".
I agree. The SRT trigger system on the Elite series is a great feature. I really like mine.

Did you get your P229 DAK yet? If not contact me as I might be able to help you with a P229 SAS DAK.

Yes I got it already, private sale. Sweet shooter.

Right now I'm trying to get used to my issued Hk P2000 trigger. I dropped about 20 pts from what I usually shot w/Beretta 96D. I'm doing my week as a range instructor (more like just range safety/pee-on) but I've been shooting about 180 rounds during the lunch break. I also get a chance to re-stock 223 and .40 ammo that I've shot up. I haven't done my range time on over 1 1/2 years while I've been busy in other assignments. Leaving my other guns alone until I get my score back up to where they were. I also have a Sig P239 SAS, all in .40.

We are also feeling the ammo crunch.
Here's a photo of my new Baby! ;D

Isn't she beautiful!
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Very pretty, but what's that ugly hunk of metal hanging off the back under the hammer?

Kidding, I've got a P220ST with a NP3 coating and love it. It's without the new beavertail.
ey SigRules,

I think it's called a "counter weight"??? LOL

No really, I'm so used carrying a Kimber Ultra CDP, I just need that hunk of metal there for security (or something!) ?

No Really really, I just love it. Did I mention I think it's "SWEET.

I could hook you up with a new Elite ya know? ::) hehehehe "Give me a call!"
No thanks, I like my P200ST with its NP3 coat. I shoot it a lot in IDPA and score better with it than my P226 in 9mm. I've just never been a fan of the 1911 and all the beavertails.
Beavertails serve a very real purpose on 1911s. Elsewhere...they're questionable. The SIG's boreline really is too high for them to be of much use. Anymore, I think gun manufacturers put stuff on guns just to look cool, and have lost sight of where this stuff originally came from and why.

I've never been particularly prone to hammer bite on any pistol, even those noted for it like the HiPower and P210. I like beavertails on 1911s--they're comfortable, especially with a high-thumb grip--but I've never been bitten by one, even with the high-thumb. So I guess it would come down to aesthetics if you don't get bitten.
Ooooohhh! A beavertail! I thought it was some sort of bottle opener/ice pick or something in that nature.

Lanyard loops are for bottle opening. ;)

What I need is a 1911 magazine that can double as a bushing wrench. That's for you Baer lovers out there!
It can be used as a 'skull crusher' 'Scalp Massager' in an "emergent situation" ::)
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