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Discussion Starter #1
"The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Well as most of you would know by now, we have a few new members. Welcome parabellum, and sigforall. Welcome to our little forum. It's not as big as your mighty Sig Forum, but as they say, size doesn't matter it's how you use it that counts? Who said that anyway. I digress......

At 1956hrs on Thursday November 22nd, 2007 one of our newest members, sigforall, posted in a thread on the "Sig Forum" linking a conversation that was posted here on our little "XCR Forum" see: http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/630601935/m/5571070801?r=7391021801#7391021801 by our friend tzoid.

This conversation was read "over there" and as a result we had a record number of visitors come into our little "XCR Forum" wanting to read this thread. It was somewhat controversial, it was definitely a from the heart venting by our friend, but in the true spirit of this country it was "Freedom of Speech".

I took it upon myself to add a few words of comfort aimed as consoling tzoid, who I have become to know as a friend. I said nothing against anyone, but I did say words to the effect: "Sig pistols, Love em. Sig 556, they have a lot of work to do on them before I would shell out my green for one".

As a result of my responce to tzoid's post, I received a "pointed' email from another one of our newest members parabellum, who just happens to "own/administer" the Sig Forum". At first, like some dumb ass, I didn't know what the hell he was talking about. I hadn't visited the "other forum" and bothered to find out what all the hooo haaa was about, and then it hit me like a bald eagle hitting it's prey. I had offended someone by what I said, or by attempting to consol a friend after being attacked on the "other forum", and believe me when they attack 'over there' they attack (I know I have been the victim).

Well after an exchange of a few emails in an attempt to find out what was really going on, and who I may have offended, I was told nothing. I did find out however that I had NOT been banned from the "other forum", but I did find out that I had been locked out of key posts, including the "Classifieds Section" where some of you know I have an advertisement for my business 'Aussie Arms LLC'.

WTF is going on here??? Do I need to advertise in the "other forums" pages................... [glow=red,2,300]NO![/glow] Do I want to advertise in the "other forums" pages................ [glow=red,2,300]NO![/glow]

That being said, let me ask our newest members this: "Are you here to contribute to this forum in a positive way, or are you here just to attempt to censor what we say here and to stir up more shit reporting back to the Jackals on the "other forum"?

I am in no doubt that when our friend parrabellum reads this he will not only lock me out from my advertisement, he will "[glow=red,2,300]BAN ME FROM HIS FORUM FOR LIFE[/glow]" and that wont be long enough in my books.

Getting back to our little "XCR Forum". Since my joining this community, and I see it as a community, I have made new friends and totally enjoyed spending my precious spare time here, interacting positively with you all. Lets keep up the "Good Spirit" we have come to enjoy here in our community, and for all those just here to pick a fight, and to stir shit, just leave us alone in peace. If that's not clear enough, how about ................... "[glow=red,2,300]Go Away[/glow]!"
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

I don't spend any time on the Sig forums and can safely say I never will. I cordially detest Sigarms. They've pretty much written and initialed the term "customer no-service" from my perspective (and, yes, HK pretty much printed the paper that's written on). Just because the "hive-mind" seems to think Sig-Sauer is great, doesn't mean everyone agrees. Best get used to that. Disagreement, that is.

I'm not afraid to say what I think. Personally, I think the Sig556 is an abortion that should have never been signed off on by Swissarms. Why this thing saw the light of day I'll never know. It has improved, but there aren't too many places to go from being lower than whaleshit. I have little use for Sig pistols aside from the 210 (a real Sig, not a Sig-Sauer). That's mostly kneejerk snobbism, but I really don't like the guns. I have no use for double action lockworks in autopistols. It's wrong on several levels and I refuse to have anything to do with them. Don't like them. Don't want to like them. Never will like them. Hell, I don't even like double action revolvers, but I do have a few--mainly because they have swing-out cylinders. I'm lazy that way.

Now I realize a lot of folks won't agree with me on these views and that's OK. Frankly, I don't much care if anyone does or not. I do have specific reasons for my views and I'm more than willing to pass them on. See the above. On the other hand, some tool from a "foreign" forum isn't going to shout me down. Most of the reason I'll post such things is to present an opposing view. I know the slavering fanbois won't be influenced by anything I might say, but it's not really for them. It's for people that really have no experience with whatever is being, umm, discussed. Hopefully, it'll make them look more closely at the subject and make a more informed decision, rather than "Hey, I saw it on the intrawebz, so it must be true."

You don't want to be part of the hive-mind. You're supposed to be better than insects.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Roy, I agree with you. If they don't like what they read here that can pack sand.

I guess they haven't realized that difference of opinion is healthy and there is no good reason to attack someone just because they see things a little different. If you don't like my choice of guns or trucks or whatever, fine, agree to disagree and be a grownup about it.

Edited so as to not hurt feelings blah blah blah...
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Regardless of how folks feel about the SIG rifle.... this whole thing could have been handled better. Tzoid was "pulled" into a fight... but deleted his post... both here and on the other site... and that should have been the end of it, period. All of this banning is over the top...
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

All

I truly am sorry for my part in the Mess that now occupies way more time then it deserves.

Sigforall I will publically say I should not have threatened you and for that I am sorry.

The fact remains I overreacted to a person that truly know that he gets under my skin and pushes my buttons whenever he sees the chance,The pic of Malcolm McDowell he uses in his signature is there to annoy people and he knows it.

Anyway .. I apologize to the entire Forum and Lex especially for bringing negative shit into your Forum, and Parabellum .. I apologized at least 4 times to you and you still continued to brow beat me in your emails..

Have a great weekend
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

tzoid,

You don't own me any appoligy. I said what I said, and I would say it again. If I can't say something here, and not get into a shift slinging contest "over there" well I am better off not being a member of the Sigforum and upon my request parabellum has removed me from the membership.

End of story.

He has not answered my question to him at this point:
"Are you here to contribute to this forum in a positive way, or are you here just to attempt to censor what we say here and to stir up more shit reporting back to the Jackals on the "other forum"?
Nor do I expect him to.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

"Are you here to contribute to this forum in a positive way, or are you here just to attempt to censor what we say here and to stir up more shit reporting back to the Jackals on the "other forum"?

Just for the record......

I like the Sig pistols, but they don't fit my hands. In single action, I do really well with them - it's the double action I can't reach. Yes, even with the shorter optional trigger. It's a shame really, they do build a decent pistol, which is more than I can say about many companies. The single stack 45 single action was something I held my breath for..... but it's not a good match for my hands either - quite unfortunately.

Every year at the SHOT show, I keep picking up the 556, hoping that they've got some refinement introduced since the year before. Hasn't happened yet, at least to my standards, but hopefully it will happen - competition only serves to improve the final product the end user gets in every case. The thing is, I either own - or have owned - most every version of combat carbine or battle rifle out there. At least the ones that were mass marketed. Many of the "wonder" items flatly aren't (I can't help but think of that AUG) - but if the 556 was wonderful now, I'd have one or two in my safe now.

On the other hand, I've got one of the first XCRs to leave the factory - literally. That XCR was the first to make it out to Gunsite (yes, I got mine before Cory could get ahold of one! HA!), and I've been 'using her hard' ever since. Got a combat carbine 'doorkicker' course lined up for '08, and you can guess which carbine I'm taking. I got my XCR about 3 months before the Gunsite course, so that's how long I had to determine if it was what I estimated it would be (from handling earlier versions, etc) or if I needed to take a back-up. Or worse, if I figured the XCR wouldn't make it through the course. You'd be surprised at how many people take things to courses that can't make it through a serious course functionally, I see it EVERY time. Those 3 months weren't overly nice to the XCR, but throughout that I didn't learn her true limitations and she went (and performed so well the instructors took notice!) without the need for a backup.

The fact of the matter is that some products perform as they're supposed to, some don't. Some products have problems as they arrive, and it's a matter of 1) living with the problems 2) fixing the problems on your own or 3) getting rid of the stick. OK, or maybe just cleaning it up really well and relegating it to 'safe queen' status. In any case, I have extreme dislikes for safe queens - with me everything gets used or sold off to buy more copies of what IS used.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why it is that people get so 'invested' in what they carry! A pistol (carbine, rifle, shotgun, submachinegun, etc, etc) isn't a personal trait, it's a TOOL. If I purchase a hammer, and it works, do the nails know what brand the hammer is? Does it matter? If it works for me, does what I need it to, and doesn't break, does it matter if it's a name brand or not? No. I buy stuff. I wring it out - hard. If it works for me then great! Elsewise it doesn't get used. Does the fact that I don't carry a SIG pistol make the pistol on my hip every day any less reliable? Hardly. And unlike the vast majority of firearms owners, I actively seek out the performance envelope of what I own. Torture test if you will. I've found what works for ME, and is reliable in the snow / ice, mud, sand, and water. Note, I find that out, by doing, not by reading.

This gives me a slightly different aspect to firearms. I can tell you what I've worked with, and the pros and cons of each. For some reason, too many people get that investment of ego in their chosen firearm, and can't admit to others - much less themselves - that their firearm has any cons! What hubris! The facts of the matter are simple - if there was one 'best' whatever, then there wouldn't be a market for any competitors. If Glock, Sig, Colt, etc were THE best pistol without doubt, then the others would be driven out of business in a few short years. The fact that this doesn't happen only goes to prove exactly what I'm saying - everything has pros and cons, and picking what works best for an individual (or department for that matter) should not be a clear cut case of unrestrained ego!

Speaking of identifying pros and cons, I'd decided my official first post here would be a pictoral on how the XCR buttplate could be modified quickly and easily (well, if you've got a machinist on tap) to provide a sling attachment for the standard 2 point sling. I guess that'll be my second official post ::) Just waiting on my girlfriend to do the digital pics.

For those of you who use the front of the magazine well as a vertical grip as well, I'll post a pic of a really simple mod to make that more comfortable.

Last year at this time, I was planning a good ice work-out for the XCR (and some other miscellaneous gear), between -30 and -40. Unfortunately, I got sick and didn't feel like leaving the house - or doing anything else for that matter - for the two or three weeks we have those conditions locally. This year, hopefully, will be much more better in that regard. I'll post pics as I get them ;D
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Forums are starting to seem really petty just my :2cents:...
Bravo, your smart :D, what have you found to be the cons of the XCR thus far?
Yeah Im using the internet for info, but I dont have money or age to take these courses yet, Im always eager for an open minded opinion filled with information though, you should do a write up on the XCR ;D
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Ahh, welcome Bravo. I do believe this is Bravo7.62 from the Amback forums. I was wondering if he'd find his way here and actually post. I only lurk at Amback myself, but one of the primary reasons I went and dropped cash on an XCR is his early review on that site.

He's also a big M14 fan (a rifle I don't particularly care for myself), so all you M14 lovers now have someone else wax enthusiastic with.

Now we just need some more HK fans. Not easy these days, I know, but I need someone to swap li..., err, repeat glowing tales of wonder with involving P7s and the like.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Bravo,

Welcome to the XCR Forum. Your first post was, how can I say............... inspirational. Thank you for coming over, and thank you for your words of wisdom. I look forward to reading from you and seeing your photos and ideas. :thanks:

My question posted above in this thread wasn't put out there for most new comers, it is there for the people who come into our community with an agenda. If those people, with agendas, want to hang around and contribute positively to this forum they will receive a welcome from me.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Welcome Bravo, some good insight in your post...I still wonder why people get so attached to weapons. It is like the guys I see that spend 10K+ on a nice Snap-On tool set then get the old Harbor Freight stuff out when they wrench because they are afraid they may damage their pretty tools. You are correct, unless you are in it for pure collection a gun should be viewed as a tool.

I guess I will come out of the closet and admit that I have actually bought a gun before that had huge hype surrounding it and I didn't like it, even though I spent lots of money on it. Yes, I still have it, it even has a can on it. It is fun to shoot every now and then but for the $700 I spent for a pistol I could have used the money better.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

All

I truly am sorry for my part in the Mess that now occupies way more time then it deserves.

The one point that amazes me is that Parabellum very abruptly demanded that I remove the post I had in the section that is specifically there for what I used it for. "ENDLESS DEBATE AND WHINING" He sent Lex the same request and I did delete the thread completely. I requested that he remove the thread in his forum and to this minute it remains.

I guess he feels the need to allow the drama to continue and Sigforall I will publically say I should not have threatened you and for that I am sorry.

The fact remains I overreacted to a person that truly know that he gets under my skin and pushes my buttons whenever he sees the chance,The pic of Malcolm McDowell he uses in his signature is there to annoy people and he knows it.

Anyway .. I apologize to the entire Forum and Lex especially for bringing negative shit into your Forum, and Parabellum .. I apologized at least 4 times to you and you still continued to brow beat me in your emails..

Have a great weekend
Anyone remember the TV show "Branded"?

???
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

No I'm 43 ... enlighten me please
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Yes this sounds like me.. ???

WTF.. Explain this to me smschulz I'm slow ... :eek:

In the 1880s Jason McCord travels the country trying to prove he's no coward. He needs to do this because the military career of this West point graduate came to an end when he was thrown out of the army after being accused of cowardice. Written by Ed Stephan {[email protected]}

In this Western series, Jason McCord, the only survivor of the Battle of Bitter Creek, is court-martialed and kicked out of the Army because of his alleged cowardice. Rather than demean the good name of the Army commander who was actually to blame for the massacre, McCord travels the Old West trying to restore his good name and reputation. Written by Marty McKee {[email protected]}
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Explain this to me smschulz I'm slow ... :eek:

No T, I didn't mean anything but the analogy of someone that was actually "good" being "branded", that's about it.

Sorry you're not on SF anymore.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Let me add my 2 cents here. More flame to the fire, I guess.

I've never been to the "other" forum, don't like any Sig products, never have, never will. I'm certainly not sorry to say this in any way.

I've shot Sig pistols (226's and 220's) and just don't see the wonder of them. NONE of them, in my opinion, are better than a good 1911, period. Those of you 1911 owners out there probably know what I speak of here.

I will never own any Sig products as I think they're over-priced and at least in the case of the GSR (1911-like) product line very poorly designed, implemented and executed. The GSR line has left a bad taste in 1911 owner's mouths due to the poor design and numerous problems caused by Sig themselves at trying to redesign the 1911. Sig can blame the problems on the production of the GSR frames on outside sources all it wants, but in the end Sig is responsible for all design changes it tried to make to a known, proven, working design.

That said, they (Sig forum members) should keep their shit over there. I for one wouldn't worry about it, just headgames by some petty dipshit I suppose.

Let's keep our forum here as it's been, peaceful and on track with discussions of the XCR and Robarms products.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Wow

how did this get so out of control ?

We all need to just drop it and go on with life....

Turn the page

Have a coke and a smile.... or a Beer , Scotch ... Glass of Wine or whatever. ;D
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Welcome Barvo, Looking forward to seeing your pitchers & any other mods. you would like to share.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

Wow

how did this get so out of control ?

We all need to just drop it and go on with life....

Turn the page

Have a coke and a smile.... or a Beer , Scotch ... Glass of Wine or whatever. ;D

Last comment > Welcome back to the SF.

Page turned.
 

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Re: "The Land Of The Free, and The Home Of The Brave" sometimes........

My 2 cents basically agree with some of the above points.

I have pretty much stopped going to the SIG forum as there are too many people there who don't really know what they are talking about or are so stuck in their manufacturer or training that they can't see past their nose. I loove FN but I also appreciate the crap they produce from time to time. Same with SIG and even the 1911. It doesn't however mean that someone should be blinkered or rude. But what the hell, screw em'

I was on the Military.com forum a while back and someone was slagging off the XCR basically because it wasn't an AR and so on. The guy couldn't get past his training on the AR platform and as a result like some machine he couldn't deal with anything that differed from his manual of arms. SAD!

The SIG forum has also got it's share of assholes. Unfortunately forums are full of everybody, some are soldiers, some police and some are civillian shooters. Some are wannabes. Some know what they are talking about and alot don't have a clue. I've had an argument online with some tosser who thought he knew it all and turned out to be a REMF mechanic! Then there was some idiot who thought he was a gunsmith and knew it all, and gave Alex a load of crap over the XCR. So far from what i've seen the new people on this forum has announced themselves as such, and not as 'experts', and as a result this forum tends to be more fun. Also the RobArm crew joining in is nice and something I wish the pther vendors would actually do.

Aussie, forget about it. That shit doesn't matter. If the idiot has bothered to look at his own forum, and check the link he would see you didn't post it and there was no need to come accross as a f^*#ing twat! I'm sure Alex has also had his fill of morons on other forums.

Remember the following quote;

"It takes five minutes to talk like an expert, a few dollars to dress like one, but years of effort, training and experience to become one" How many of these idiots would actually go one on one with live ammo? Talk is cheap and easy.

We like you!
 
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