TSA Flight Deck Firearm Policy
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It already has happened.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880327021
I definitely do see this as a AD potential. Duty and off-duty holsters are designed specifically to cover the entire trigger as to avoid objects from getting in between the trigger. Apparently 'da boneheads' at TSA thought by MODIFYING a typical off-duty type holster as such by poking a hole in it for a pad lock would make the weapon safer.
Bear in mind; TSA officials (management) doesn't really mean they are fully trained at the subject at hand nor may they be subject matter expert. The tons of Air Marshall's they hire right after 9/11 ( I even threw in an app) a majority being from BP Agents (and many came back to the BP) get really good FA training. I also trained with them and their FA instructors take our (BP) FITP, Firearms Instructor's Training Program. I also got a change to get some of their training and at the same time they were putting many pilots through their weeklong FA training at Artesia (In the video above I think that's Artesia).
However a TSA management may have come from a different background such as USDA, maybe Postal Inspector, who knows? But they do have a cadre of management that really don't get much field time or in the course of their career may draw down but a few times.
That holster shown in the video does not come like that. So obviously someone at TSA devised a policy requiring such security device that defeats the purpose to have a trigger completely covered. It's bad enough hearing how people leave their finger in the trigger as they re holster, but now the pilots are made to place a bar in a hole like that.
As a habit I continuously check my gun and snap. Yes, seat belts, shirts, elbows are the usual culprits. I used to use a Safariland level III double snap model with my Beretta. Now I have the issued level II bail retention. Even those become unsnapped/bail unhooked. I've found both snaps undone on a number of occasions. I can also see the gun working its way out if one has to put on and take off.
I'm not positively sure wether the pilots who get trained keep on to that gun or if it is left locked in the plane. I think the pilot brings it on board because not all of them want to carry. Just as with LEO and MIL, many don't have have formal or any previous training or experience. They only get one week and who knows about needing follow up quals. Few may be gun nuts and will have more experience and savvy. Although it's usually the 'experts' that have a ND/AD.
If that is TSA's policy, yes it is an accident waiting to happen.... again.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880327021
I definitely do see this as a AD potential. Duty and off-duty holsters are designed specifically to cover the entire trigger as to avoid objects from getting in between the trigger. Apparently 'da boneheads' at TSA thought by MODIFYING a typical off-duty type holster as such by poking a hole in it for a pad lock would make the weapon safer.
Bear in mind; TSA officials (management) doesn't really mean they are fully trained at the subject at hand nor may they be subject matter expert. The tons of Air Marshall's they hire right after 9/11 ( I even threw in an app) a majority being from BP Agents (and many came back to the BP) get really good FA training. I also trained with them and their FA instructors take our (BP) FITP, Firearms Instructor's Training Program. I also got a change to get some of their training and at the same time they were putting many pilots through their weeklong FA training at Artesia (In the video above I think that's Artesia).
However a TSA management may have come from a different background such as USDA, maybe Postal Inspector, who knows? But they do have a cadre of management that really don't get much field time or in the course of their career may draw down but a few times.
That holster shown in the video does not come like that. So obviously someone at TSA devised a policy requiring such security device that defeats the purpose to have a trigger completely covered. It's bad enough hearing how people leave their finger in the trigger as they re holster, but now the pilots are made to place a bar in a hole like that.
As a habit I continuously check my gun and snap. Yes, seat belts, shirts, elbows are the usual culprits. I used to use a Safariland level III double snap model with my Beretta. Now I have the issued level II bail retention. Even those become unsnapped/bail unhooked. I've found both snaps undone on a number of occasions. I can also see the gun working its way out if one has to put on and take off.
I'm not positively sure wether the pilots who get trained keep on to that gun or if it is left locked in the plane. I think the pilot brings it on board because not all of them want to carry. Just as with LEO and MIL, many don't have have formal or any previous training or experience. They only get one week and who knows about needing follow up quals. Few may be gun nuts and will have more experience and savvy. Although it's usually the 'experts' that have a ND/AD.
If that is TSA's policy, yes it is an accident waiting to happen.... again.
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Without trying to start a debate - I want to say that the following statement is typical of how someone (an allegded "expert") who wasn't even there - can skew the readers view by making generalized or opinionated statements:
"Retired Army pilot Joseph Gutheinz Jr., an investigative consultant in NASA and Federal Aviation Administration cases, said gun safety is particularly important on planes. He said the accidental shooting in Charlotte could have been much more serious."
"It should have already been stowed away safely," he said. [glow=red,2,300]"You don't play around with a loaded gun at altitude. You don't take it out. You just leave it wherever it is until you land. Until you're safe."[/glow]
This pisses me off, because this is the same kind of shit-for-brains statement that give the anti-gunners out there a vision of some pilot smokin' and jokin' in the cockpit with a loaded weapon.
Un-necessary DRAMA and the usual dumb-ass sensationalism used to draw people into an anti-gun mindset.
MFers...
"Retired Army pilot Joseph Gutheinz Jr., an investigative consultant in NASA and Federal Aviation Administration cases, said gun safety is particularly important on planes. He said the accidental shooting in Charlotte could have been much more serious."
"It should have already been stowed away safely," he said. [glow=red,2,300]"You don't play around with a loaded gun at altitude. You don't take it out. You just leave it wherever it is until you land. Until you're safe."[/glow]
This pisses me off, because this is the same kind of shit-for-brains statement that give the anti-gunners out there a vision of some pilot smokin' and jokin' in the cockpit with a loaded weapon.
Un-necessary DRAMA and the usual dumb-ass sensationalism used to draw people into an anti-gun mindset.
MFers...
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"They're given a .40-caliber semiautomatic H&K USP, the same weapon issued to all people eligible to carry guns in the cockpit."
Although I have five HK's of my own in both .40 and .45 caliber, and I love them all - does anyone know how they came to select this pistol instead of another brand? Was there a "test" similar to other government trials?
Although I have five HK's of my own in both .40 and .45 caliber, and I love them all - does anyone know how they came to select this pistol instead of another brand? Was there a "test" similar to other government trials?
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Probably the same way DHS decided for us to carry the 'other' version of the USP, the P2000. Backdoor dealings, politics, etc. The H&K's are actually not too bad. For the size of it it is the same size as a Sig P239 and carries more rounds. The pilot's are "issued" the USP from DHS, but at the same time they are paid for!?!?!
I'm not sure but I think they are the DAO versions.
The video link I posted above seems to be made by a pilot, I'll only assume a pilot union representative.
We had to ride the same bus to the range with them when I was in Artesia almost 5 years ago. They seem pretty cool, most former mil. I can't say they were gun geeks but I'm sure they are a few in every group. They only do it if they volunteer to do so.
And that retired Army pilot truly doesn't know shit from shinola. For him to come out and say that BS, might as well take that same mentality and apply it to LEO's. He's the type of dipshit who if given the command would make soldiers protecting a base in Iraq have an unloaded gun and loaded magazines in the mag puoch for 'safety reasons'.
Those are usually the types that do not have much field time and made it up the ranks in an office enviroment, but will be the first to make comments condeming any mishaps and arm chair quarter back the hell out of every situation. If you see where they said the round hit, seem to me the pilot probably pointed it at the safetest direction you could point a gun at incase of an ND/AD.
It's a proven point that those who carry and shoot FA regularly will have an ND/AD at some point of time. It's just a matter of when. Even Bill Jordan (old BP Agent and one of the country's top shooter and wrote 'Down on the Border' in G&A magazines) had an ND that resulted in the death of a BP supervisor.
I'm not sure but I think they are the DAO versions.
The video link I posted above seems to be made by a pilot, I'll only assume a pilot union representative.
We had to ride the same bus to the range with them when I was in Artesia almost 5 years ago. They seem pretty cool, most former mil. I can't say they were gun geeks but I'm sure they are a few in every group. They only do it if they volunteer to do so.
And that retired Army pilot truly doesn't know shit from shinola. For him to come out and say that BS, might as well take that same mentality and apply it to LEO's. He's the type of dipshit who if given the command would make soldiers protecting a base in Iraq have an unloaded gun and loaded magazines in the mag puoch for 'safety reasons'.
Those are usually the types that do not have much field time and made it up the ranks in an office enviroment, but will be the first to make comments condeming any mishaps and arm chair quarter back the hell out of every situation. If you see where they said the round hit, seem to me the pilot probably pointed it at the safetest direction you could point a gun at incase of an ND/AD.
It's a proven point that those who carry and shoot FA regularly will have an ND/AD at some point of time. It's just a matter of when. Even Bill Jordan (old BP Agent and one of the country's top shooter and wrote 'Down on the Border' in G&A magazines) had an ND that resulted in the death of a BP supervisor.
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Yep, back in 2003 we had a command require all soldiers to turn in all ammo unless they were going outside the wire. Needless to say I was glad I had my own personal stash.
ND are like motorcycle accidents, those that have and those that will. Hopefully when that time comes it will be something stupid like at the range and with the weapon pointed in a safe direction. My friends Grandpa shoots everyday, and has more shooting experience than I can ever hope to have. He had a ND a year ago...in his basement getting ready to clean a gun. It can happen to anyone. I think the pilot handled it the best that he could given the circumstances.
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