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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looks like I pissed of some SCAR fans by saying that the SCAR is not worth the price FN is asking. I said that for a rifle made from cost saving materials like extruded aluminum uppers and polymer lowers that the rifle is about $1000 over priced and that for $1000 less that I have an XCR which does pretty much the same thing as the SCAR, but it actually has caliber conversion kits and spare parts available.

I was informed that my comments "insult the people who know better" and that there is a shooting school who has never had an XCR complete the course without breaking down etc., etc.

I also informed them of Terra's Ol' Dirty having gone 300,000+ rounds without any major malfunction. No one commented on that.

I never once said the SCAR was a bad rifle or inferior to the XCR since I haven't shot the SCAR yet and can't say which is better. I personally think they are probably quite equal in performance.

They also griped about the XCR not coming with iron sights. I guess FN's BUIS is worth $1000???

Then they went into how the SCAR was selected and the most heavily tested weapon ever and blah blah blah.

Oh well. I love my XCR and I don't see how the SCAR can be $1000 superior to it. Let the fanboys spend $2500-$9500 on their SCAR and be able to scream it from the Blog-o-sphere that "ZOMG!!!! I haz teh SCARzorz an u don't!!! I are über-kewl e-kommandoz with teh bestest gun in teh wurldz!!!!" They are helping to support the economy right?
 

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Let them think their Play-Dough rifle is better.

I'll trust high-grade machined Aluminum and Steel over extruded parts any day.

I'd imagine if you ran an XCR over with a Humvee, it would probably still work!

Plus, the take-down procedure of a SCAR seems like it would take a lot longer than cracking open an XCR.

Just watch this video to see how long it takes to change barrels:

Our XCR takes less time to change the Barrel AND the Bolt to accept a completely new caliber:

Oh yeah and it doesn't require any special torque screw tool, just an Allen Wrench...

Next time someone says the SCAR is better, have them change their barrels at the same time you convert your XCR to a new caliber :p
 

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everyone likes something different. We defend the XCR because we feel it is the best. They defend the SCAR because they feel theirs is the best. Who gives a shit. If it gets the job done, and you enjoy doing the job, then that's all I can ask of it.
 

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Yep,more pain in the ass barrel change for a $1000 more.No thanks.It might get the job done,but why pay more if it offers less advantages doing the same job.No brainer.I hate paying more than I have to,call me a cheap bastard all day if you want,but I damn sure won't pay more for less.
 

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Okay - I just watched the barrel change video of the SCAR. I actually got tired and fatigued from watching it. I was saying to myself "ANOTHER screw... Another..., 6 screws to hold on one barrel?" I could see two screws or even maybe four, but six just doens't make sense. I can't think of a single rifle out there that has this many. If they are afraid of it falling off in battle, then perhaps they need to rethink their design.

In my opinion the SCAR probably shoots no better than any other Assualt weapon, like the ACR, AR, XCR. As far as user friendliness, I would say the SCAR is bottoms.

Also when wieght is an issue since troops carry so much gear that every ounce matters, why would I want to have to carry an extra tool.

Ah you might argue that you wouldn't change a barrel during a mission. That may be the true if I am in the middle of moving out, but what if my role in the mission changes and I need to use a longer or shorter barrel? I have to have my tool with me to change out the barrel. That is needless weight.

At best the SCAR is a good concept weapon, but not a very practical one. It actually saddens me to think that our troops may one day have it issued to them.

I think RA nees to show up to SHOT show 2010 and show off the newest version of the XCR and get the XCR-M done. Setup a booth and and show off the entire line of the XCR from the PDW, to the SBR, to the M and all the different calibers in between. Even get some painted in Desert Tan and Flat Dark earth to show off how they can be painted as well.

I know a lot of troops who paint their M-4s over there to blend in with the environments.

All hail the XCR... God save the XCR... :bow:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mastiff, IIRC the XCR upper is extruded as well. It just happens to have all the rails machined into it where as the 3 and 6 o'clock rails on the SCAR are bolted on.

If it isn't extruded I'm sure Terra can correct me.
 

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My :2cents: as a former armory chief...that tool is going to walk off left and right. Some unit is going to be spending $$$ to buy more when the rest of us can swing to Pep Boys and pick up an allen wrench for $2. I'll also second-who wants to carry more gear???
 

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Who in the hell is going to remember the torque sequence when your tired,need to eat and are in a hurry.Smacks of overengineering. :duh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just to clarify extruding isn't bad. It works, just like stamping sheet metal on an AK, and is still quite strong. The XCR upper upper is extuded as well, but has more machine work than SCAR. Again, if I'm wrong about the XCR's upper being extruded then Terra can correct me.

Extruding and polymer injection moulding are time and cost saving measures. Then why is the SCAR so expensive? I expect it is because you are buying the FN name and "SOCOM's rifle".
 

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I am sure the SCAR-L is a very good weapon. I would love to have a few, but I opted in these times to pick up two XCR's for the price of a single SCAR (or maybe less). When and if the price of the SCARs come down from the stratosphere I may add one or more to the collection for the heck of it.

In the meantime, I am generally turning over all the guns I don't shoot (just sold an unfired NIB-pre-ban AUG to my brother for example in a blockbuster four gun trade) for something I plan to shoot the crap out of, my forthcoming XCR's. If I love those, I'll be looking at an XCR-M, and a suppressed PDW. Also, I only want to shoot things where spare parts are readily available, I can get them quickly, and I can keep spares on hand.

But a SCAR is on the "eventually possess" list. My mechanical engineering background makes me love things that are 100% functional, purpose built, unusual and with superior design. I can't think of many things that are more purpose-built for function than a true military arm, adopted or not. So, the XCR is most intriguing to me right now, I am hopeful that it lives up to my lofty expectations.

So what guns should the Military Collector/Shooter have? Maybe I'll start another thread on that one.
 

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@Terra - That is what I thought. When someone said the XCR upper is extruded, i had to do a double take. i didn't think it was. In any case, thanks Terra for clarifying.

If the XCR is forged and the SCAR is extruded, then why in the hell is it so damn expensive? I know why.

I'll tell yeah... calm down.

Ok here is why. As I'm sure everyone here knows the government overpays for everything. Have you ever looked at the GSA pricing. It is way over priced.

Now knowing this FNH USA decided they would sell the rifle to the public at an MSRP of $2500 or so. Now there are those out there that are willing to pay rediculous prices just to be the first on their block to have the SCAR (although they would still be if they waited for the price to drop).

So if FNH USA has a listed price of say $2500 then they can easily justify the rediculous "milspec" price.

Their costs to produce the weapon is probably in the neighborhood of $200 - $400 with all their overhead. Turn around and sell it to the gov and some of the public for $2500 and you will make a very, very hansome profit. Even if their prodcution costs per rifle are $1500, that would be a 40% profit. Not too shaby.

I can all but guarantee that production costs are nowhere near $1500 per rifle.

But I can guarantee the pricing is not based on projected worth. It is based on the $$$ they are trying to get out of DoD, considering the virtually unlimited budget that SOCOM has.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am sure the SCAR-L is a very good weapon. I would love to have a few, but I opted in these times to pick up two XCR's for the price of a single SCAR (or maybe less). When and if the price of the SCARs come down from the stratosphere I may add one or more to the collection for the heck of it.

In the meantime, I am generally turning over all the guns I don't shoot (just sold an unfired NIB-pre-ban AUG to my brother for example in a blockbuster four gun trade) for something I plan to shoot the crap out of, my forthcoming XCR's. If I love those, I'll be looking at an XCR-M, and a suppressed PDW. Also, I only want to shoot things where spare parts are readily available, I can get them quickly, and I can keep spares on hand.

But a SCAR is on the "eventually possess" list. My mechanical engineering background makes me love things that are 100% functional, purpose built, unusual and with superior design. I can't think of many things that are more purpose-built for function than a true military arm, adopted or not. So, the XCR is most intriguing to me right now, I am hopeful that it lives up to my lofty expectations.

So what guns should the Military Collector/Shooter have? Maybe I'll start another thread on that one.
You will love your XCRs. Just remember to put 500-1000 rounds through it on gas setting 4 when you get it to properly break it in. I neglected to do that and it had some trouble running. Once I turned up the gas it ran like a raped ape and has been 100% since. Also after 300 rounds check all your nuts bolts and screws to make sure they are tight. If on the off chance they do loosen up put some blue Lok-Tight on them and tigten them down. I haven't heard of it happening in a long time though. Then shoot the Hell out of it!
 

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I'd love to have a SCAR, but I can only agree that it's hardly worth $2500, much less the $4k+ extortions it's been going for. I mean even if you get it for $2500 (yeah right), that's an XCR with the folding stock, a pile of magazines, an Eotech or Aimpoint, and a thousand rounds of ammo. Value.

I've only got about 600 rounds through my XCR now. Last weekend we were taking advantage of the nice weather to get out and do some shooting. I had some odds and ends of various makes of .223 to shoot up, and I started turning the gas down to see how it did. It was running everything with no problem on 3 and flinging brass like an angry monkey with a pile of poop.

I turned it down to 2 and everything was still running just fine, there was a noticable decrease in the recoil. By the time I was down to some Winchester and PMC rounds I turned it down to 1. About every 6-8 rounds there was a FTE, no jams or anything you just had to manually cycle the bolt. But the difference in recoil literally made it feel almost like shooting .22 LR.

I'm going to put some more rounds through it, clean it good, then feed it some quality ammo to see if I can get it to run consistently at 1. Fun stuff.



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I'd love to have a SCAR, but I can only agree that it's hardly worth 00, much less the k+ extortions it's been going for. I mean even if you get it for 00 (yeah right), that's an XCR with the folding stock, a pile of magazines, an Eotech or Aimpoint, and a thousand rounds of ammo. Value.

I've only got about 600 rounds through my XCR now. Last weekend we were taking advantage of the nice weather to get out and do some shooting. I had some odds and ends of various makes of .223 to shoot up, and I started turning the gas down to see how it did. It was running everything with no problem on 3 and flinging brass like an angry monkey with a pile of poop.

I turned it down to 2 and everything was still running just fine, there was a noticable decrease in the recoil. By the time I was down to some Winchester and PMC rounds I turned it down to 1. About every 6-8 rounds there was a FTE, no jams or anything you just had to manually cycle the bolt. But the difference in recoil literally made it feel almost like shooting .22 LR.

I'm going to put some more rounds through it, clean it good, then feed it some quality ammo to see if I can get it to run consistently at 1. Fun stuff.
I am curious to see how that turns out. Please let us know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I only turn mine down to 2 when someone who is recoil sensative shoots it. I keep it 3 because I want the more positive ejection and extraction. But that's just me. Maybe when I run another 1000 rounds through it I'll run it on 2 more.
 
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