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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been using a Dead Air Wolfman on my 5.56 XCR, but I’m left handed and the amount of gas in my face, even at the lowest gas setting, is extreme. I’d like a suppressor that won’t gas my face to that degree, and that will be useful in all the calibers that I desire for my XCR-L. I have a .300 BLK kit on order and expect to someday add 7.62x39.
I have read all the older threads that i could find on suppressors. It seems like OSS Helix 762 would give me some reassurance that there will be less blowback, as well as Dead Air Sandman S, which although it isn’t flow-through, promises some degree of decreased blowback and also has the advantage of sharing the mount/brake that I already have on most of my rifles.
Would like to hear experiences of using these suppressors on XCRs in 5.56, .300 BLK, and 7.62x39, and happy to hear about other suppressors too.
The new SIG SLH and SLX are intriguing, I’m just not seeing them in the marketplace yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you have one? Definitely intrigued by their design. Are they available for sale other than direct?
 

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I have 2....both .308 cans....rated for full auto and out of any length bbl. I bought through a local gun dealer that sells suppressors. They aren't super quiet....but are hearing safe.

I really like them....I wish there was a standardized QD setup for ALL suppressors. I really like the brakes I have and none of the suppressor manufacturers make a very good balanced brake in terms of size to recoil reduction, so direct thread is fine for me. Would like the option of QD though....but not in love with any of the suppressor makers brakes.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I like the key micro brake for my Dead Air, but I’m using it on 9mm and 5.56, so recoil just isn’t a big issue anyhow. For .308, I see your point.
 

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Well, on my shorty SBRs (5.56, 6.5G, 7.62x39, .308), adding a brake that's over 2" long kind of defeats the purpose of SBRing (or getting the pistol version) and depending on your bbl port to muzzle location distance, a good brake may be required to get it to run 100% reliably when filthy or with steel case.

I have heard good things about the key set up that Dead Air uses. I think it makes a lot more sense than most of the QD mounts you see out there for cans. And the micro isn't overly long either....

As I said, I wish the industry would really start standardizing them....but I doubt that will ever happen frankly.
 
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I’m using OSS on my 300 XCR and it’s been great. I don’t have a 7.62 kit anymore for the XCR, but I do use it on my 7.62X39 Galil. While it’s not QD, it only takes about 2.5 to 3 turns to get it tight and it’s left hand threaded and the gases flow through in a way that keeps the can tightened on the muzzle device. I’m vary happy with the OSS and use it on ARs and an AK as well.

I did just put a Yankee Hill flash hider for a Turbo K on my rifle 5.56 XCR. It’s very light, which is good for the 16 inch setup (and it’s an older quad rail XCR, so it’s already a bit of a pig). Worked well and I didn’t have any noticeable issue with gas blowback that bothered me.

I think Sig is working on flow-through designs as well. Don’t remember where I saw that though.
 

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I'm waiting for my Rugged Micro30 to get out of jail. Definitely not the quietest can on the market, but it should do the job of flash suppression and recoil reduction, and trying to make a 13" .308 hearing safe is a fool's errand anyway. It's also criminally light, and isn't titanium, which were the two real deciding factors for me.
 

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I'd check these guys out too......though I think if you want QD, the other options are better, but only for that reason. X2 Dev Group – Revolutionary Small Arms Development
Nice, looks like X2 Dev Group really improved themselves since the last time I checked out their website. Their suppressors look very lean and fully developed now! Now I wonder how they're like compared to the OSS cans. It's shame that their suppressors aren't part of the Silencer Shop system though, Silencer Shop has really made the NFA process a lot more streamlined and cutting out the $100 SOT fee when you order from a Silencer Shop dealer makes a big difference.

I’m using OSS on my 300 XCR and it’s been great.
I'm waiting in AFT-jail (lol Biden) for an OSS Helix 7.62. I wish I could tell you guys how it worked for me but the LGS I had it shipped to doesn't have a range (nor do any other stores 30 miles around me) so no conjugal visits for me. I think it was Sean here who conviced me to get a flow-through can for my XCR; it appeals to me because I just don't want to mess with the gas setting on my rifle that works fine already, I don't want more gas in my face when I run suppressed and I don't want my rifle to get more dirty than it has to. I realize now that if you want a gun to function when you need it, you should keep the tinkering to as little as possible. The reason I went with the OSS Helix instead of the X2 Dev Group Apollo X was because: 1) the QD system allowed me to share the can between my XCR(s) and MDRX more easily. It was a hassle to buy the OSS muzzle devices to work with them but now I don't have to worry about matching threads between a 5.56 barrel and a .308 barrel and the muzzle devices work great anyways. 2) the QD system allowed me to more easily take off the can and still have a rifle I can fire conventionally without having to get a thread protector or screw off/on a conventional muzzle device in between suppression sessions and 3) the OSS cans were easily available on Silencer Shop, so I enjoyed the above referenced benefits and saved money.

Once I can get my .300 BLK SBR online, I'll have a choice between using my OSS Helix and my SilencerCo Osprey 45K (on backorder right now) for it. The Osprey looks cool and I suspect it will be quieter, but while the OSS might be less quiet it'll also help the XCR run better and it'll be easier to take on and off. With .300BLK supersonic rounds, I'll treat like other rifle rounds and use the OSS, but maybe .300 BLK subsonic rounds will have less gas than 5.56 or supers, so it could be tolerable with a regular closed can. I'll see how I like it in the future when I can get all these pieces together.
 

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The new sig slh/slx cans hands down. 1000% hands down. As a second choice the unknown company TDS (Thermal Defence) cans are a very good choice. The other options are good also, but start looking at the weight and complexity and they start to lack luster. They are too heavy and/or too complex. You’re buying a can for the performance, not the cool looking outside or inside parts. You don’t need to take them apart either. If the company says you do, that’s not a good can. I’ve tried a ton of “low back pressure” offerings and my opinion is: weight and complexity is their biggest downfalls. The new sig cans are lighter, and the ONLY ones that have ever reduced gas blowback to lower than an UNsuppressed rifle. Big things coming. Just my opinion so flame away if you want. And I’m not a “sig guy”. Just a guy that wants the most for his money.
 

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The new sig slh/slx cans hands down. 1000% hands down. As a second choice the unknown company TDS (Thermal Defence) cans are a very good choice. The other options are good also, but start looking at the weight and complexity and they start to lack luster. They are too heavy and/or too complex. You’re buying a can for the performance, not the cool looking outside or inside parts. You don’t need to take them apart either. If the company says you do, that’s not a good can. I’ve tried a ton of “low back pressure” offerings and my opinion is: weight and complexity is their biggest downfalls. The new sig cans are lighter, and the ONLY ones that have ever reduced gas blowback to lower than an UNsuppressed rifle. Big things coming. Just my opinion so flame away if you want. And I’m not a “sig guy”. Just a guy that wants the most for his money.
Haven't seen or held the brand new Sig cans....so hard to contradict your first hand experience. Agreed though that the X2 Dev Group cans are heavy....and while the machining is complex, once it's machined, you as the end user aren't going to be dicking with it and there's nothing about the complex machining that is a moving part that would induce failure in the first place...so that point is moot.

We disagree you don't want a can that can be taken apart for cleaning or to replace parts, especially since one you can't take apart is substantially compromised if you have a baffle strike and can't replace the individual parts since the outer can is the registered part.
 

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I think you got some of my points incorrect, or misunderstood what I was saying, or I just didn't do a good job of posting so I'm going to explain what my thought processes are. And realize my post was my OPINION and feeling based on 31 years of experience. I'm not exactly sure why you felt the need to rebuttal my post, so before I start I want to be clear I'm not questioning your opinion or experiences, because its your OPINION and everyone is entitled to one.

You said:
Haven't seen or held the brand new Sig cans....so hard to contradict your first hand experience. Agreed though that the X2 Dev Group cans are heavy....and while the machining is complex, once it's machined, you as the end user aren't going to be dicking with it and there's nothing about the complex machining that is a moving part that would induce failure in the first place...so that point is moot.

My moot point was, as unlikely as it may be, if the suppressor can be taken apart it can come apart when you don't want it to. The one piece or welded cans cannot so will never fail in that respect.

You say you're not going to be dicking with it, but below express the want to take it apart for cleaning. I agree that if you are the person that likes to scrape baffles/whatever the ability to disassemble is a must. However in my experience it is unnecessary and the extra complexity doesn't outweigh the one piece design that is incapable of accidently disassembling itself. And to clean a solid can its simply soaked and or ultrasound/blew out with air/shot the leftover crud out the end with a full power round/ and will be as good or often better than the "take apart" method. My complexity statement was to compare something with no moving parts, to something with 6 parts that all screw into each other. Not the manufacturing process. My bad for being vague.


you also said
We disagree you don't want a can that can be taken apart for cleaning or to replace parts, especially since one you can't take apart is substantially compromised if you have a baffle strike and can't replace the individual parts since the outer can is the registered part.

99% of baffle strikes are at the end plate or last baffle. To repair a printed can you simply cut off the damaged end and reprint it. A "take apart" can will incur the same cost or more depending on the strike place. If its the 1% and it strikes in the middle, either can will be rebuilt from the serial number up and the sig serial number is placed on the bottom area that can't be struck. There is no outer can on the sig. Neither have an advantage here really in 99% of the situations possible.

But again, my personal experiences of murphy visiting all the time and years of shooting all kinds of "stuff". I wouldn't contradict or question someone else's experiences or opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Has anyone seen the new SIG cans actually being sold anywhere? I want to see what the street pricing looks like.
 

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Has anyone seen the new SIG cans actually being sold anywhere? I want to see what the street pricing looks like.
The ones I have seen so far online were around $1200 +/- for the 300 Ti QD and non-QD. They pop up every several days but are not regularly listed. When Gunbroker has some listed they've been at retail. Those were the only ones that i had available through the rep. Everything else is out of stock at varied time lengths. So its priced right about retail but that will change with time I'm sure. probably up, not down...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Idk most of the suppressors I’m looking at are substantially below retail at Suppressor Shop and the local stores here.
 

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I think you got some of my points incorrect, or misunderstood what I was saying, or I just didn't do a good job of posting so I'm going to explain what my thought processes are. And realize my post was my OPINION and feeling based on 31 years of experience. I'm not exactly sure why you felt the need to rebuttal my post, so before I start I want to be clear I'm not questioning your opinion or experiences, because its your OPINION and everyone is entitled to one.

You said:
Haven't seen or held the brand new Sig cans....so hard to contradict your first hand experience. Agreed though that the X2 Dev Group cans are heavy....and while the machining is complex, once it's machined, you as the end user aren't going to be dicking with it and there's nothing about the complex machining that is a moving part that would induce failure in the first place...so that point is moot.

My moot point was, as unlikely as it may be, if the suppressor can be taken apart it can come apart when you don't want it to. The one piece or welded cans cannot so will never fail in that respect.

You say you're not going to be dicking with it, but below express the want to take it apart for cleaning. I agree that if you are the person that likes to scrape baffles/whatever the ability to disassemble is a must. However in my experience it is unnecessary and the extra complexity doesn't outweigh the one piece design that is incapable of accidently disassembling itself. And to clean a solid can its simply soaked and or ultrasound/blew out with air/shot the leftover crud out the end with a full power round/ and will be as good or often better than the "take apart" method. My complexity statement was to compare something with no moving parts, to something with 6 parts that all screw into each other. Not the manufacturing process. My bad for being vague.


you also said
We disagree you don't want a can that can be taken apart for cleaning or to replace parts, especially since one you can't take apart is substantially compromised if you have a baffle strike and can't replace the individual parts since the outer can is the registered part.

99% of baffle strikes are at the end plate or last baffle. To repair a printed can you simply cut off the damaged end and reprint it. A "take apart" can will incur the same cost or more depending on the strike place. If its the 1% and it strikes in the middle, either can will be rebuilt from the serial number up and the sig serial number is placed on the bottom area that can't be struck. There is no outer can on the sig. Neither have an advantage here really in 99% of the situations possible.

But again, my personal experiences of murphy visiting all the time and years of shooting all kinds of "stuff". I wouldn't contradict or question someone else's experiences or opinions.
Uh...as a poster that joined a while back but hasn't posted much...maybe you just don't understand how things work around here, but people are encouraged to give their 'opinions'....provided they back them up with logic and facts. You did that in your post as did I. You seem to have taken some sort of offense based on your tone where none was intended. My apologies if I gave off that vibe.

Point taken on them shooting loose (and I stand corrected on calling it a moot point)....though I've never seen anyone's can come apart from shooting...but I'm not saying it can't happen...just that your admittedly vague reference to "complex" machining muddied the waters.

I use a sonic cleaner, I don't scrape much of anything and I don't clean my guns much and have never disassembled any of my cans to clean them. If I was really worried about them coming apart, I'd tig the can together. YMMV.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the ease of repairing each type of can, but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying there.

EDIT BTW, nothing against the new Sig cans either....I was happy to see more flow through options. Anyone know if they are full auto rated with no bbl length restrictions? That was a selling point on my Maxflos...
 

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Uh...as a poster that joined a while back but hasn't posted much...maybe you just don't understand how things work around here, but people are encouraged to give their 'opinions'....provided they back them up with logic and facts. You did that in your post as did I. You seem to have taken some sort of offense based on your tone where none was intended. My apologies if I gave off that vibe.

Point taken on them shooting loose (and I stand corrected on calling it a moot point)....though I've never seen anyone's can come apart from shooting...but I'm not saying it can't happen...just that your admittedly vague reference to "complex" machining muddied the waters.

I use a sonic cleaner, I don't scrape much of anything and I don't clean my guns much and have never disassembled any of my cans to clean them. If I was really worried about them coming apart, I'd tig the can together. YMMV.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the ease of repairing each type of can, but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying there.
No problem. I did take your response as a "you're wrong" reply and it took me off guard why anyone would even reply to my post. I don't reply to anyone else's and say anything contradicting I just simply do what I did and that's post my information or experience or opinion. You're right, THATS how it should work around everywhere and this world would be a better place. My mistake in taking your contradiction the wrong way and I can admit when I make one. Sorry about that. Too many assholes online puts me into defensive mode unjustifiably.

The only reason I even replied to the above was to explain the repair process of additive manufactured parts because I think its really interesting and I had no idea either. Just say you have damage to the top three inches of the suppressor. Now you have to replace 2-4? baffles OR the entire core if its a mono or segmented circumferentially design like oss or others, AND the outside tube above the serial number. That's basically the entire suppressor. The only time it wouldn't encompass those parts is if its just an orifice or endcap strike. You're replacing 75%? of the suppressor?

Now enter additive manufacturing. Take the exact same baffle strike. They take the suppressor and cut the top off just below the furthest rearward damage. Then they set the can in the printer and reprint the missing area starting right where they cut it. So in the case of "low back pressure cans", instead of the entire center baffle and part of the tube needing replaced, its only the top three to three and a half inches or about 33%. Now with all that being said, I cant tell you how much each would cost to see an advantage to either scenario.

You're going to see a shift to 3d printing suppressors as time goes by. It'll happen a lot quicker than people think it will. There really isn't any comparison to conventionally manufactured cans, that's yesterdays technology.

That's why I said it was superior. Again, my opinion. The market will determine the winner not me lol I can't hardly even spell winner.....
 

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No problem. I did take your response as a "you're wrong" reply and it took me off guard why anyone would even reply to my post. I don't reply to anyone else's and say anything contradicting I just simply do what I did and that's post my information or experience or opinion. You're right, THATS how it should work around everywhere and this world would be a better place. My mistake in taking your contradiction the wrong way and I can admit when I make one. Sorry about that. Too many assholes online puts me into defensive mode unjustifiably.

The only reason I even replied to the above was to explain the repair process of additive manufactured parts because I think its really interesting and I had no idea either. Just say you have damage to the top three inches of the suppressor. Now you have to replace 2-4? baffles OR the entire core if its a mono or segmented circumferentially design like oss or others, AND the outside tube above the serial number. That's basically the entire suppressor. The only time it wouldn't encompass those parts is if its just an orifice or endcap strike. You're replacing 75%? of the suppressor?

Now enter additive manufacturing. Take the exact same baffle strike. They take the suppressor and cut the top off just below the furthest rearward damage. Then they set the can in the printer and reprint the missing area starting right where they cut it. So in the case of "low back pressure cans", instead of the entire center baffle and part of the tube needing replaced, its only the top three to three and a half inches or about 33%. Now with all that being said, I cant tell you how much each would cost to see an advantage to either scenario.

You're going to see a shift to 3d printing suppressors as time goes by. It'll happen a lot quicker than people think it will. There really isn't any comparison to conventionally manufactured cans, that's yesterdays technology.

That's why I said it was superior. Again, my opinion. The market will determine the winner not me lol I can't hardly even spell winner.....
I'm super sorry about the misunderstanding man. I am no suppressor expert....let's just get that out of the way. And I apologize if I came across as one of those assholes b/c you are 100% right....too damn many of them around the interwebz.

In my case (can only speak to Maxflos I have)...if it was even the top 3 or even 4 baffles and end cap, I could just replace those by unscrewing them, getting the parts warrantied and screwing it back together. The design is such that the end cap doesn't screw onto the can's body, so replacement is pretty simple.

In a sealed can, how would you know how far back in the can the damage is until you cut it apart (not trying to be dick....just don't understand how that works)? Seems like a lot of cutting then rewelding.....and that's not something most people are going to be able to do themselves.

I agree that sintered metal 3D printing is the wave of the future....for a lot of things...cans included.

Are the Sig cans 3D printed? And do you know about any bbl restrictions/full auto ratings (not that I have F/A....just that it's a good indicator of how robust the mfg thinks their can really is)? I wouldn't be opposed to another can...and if the Sig is lighter....I could definitely see picking up a 5.56 or another .308 can frankly.

Thanks for the reasoned reply and exchange of info. Again, my sincere apologies for getting off on the wrong foot.

Kind regards,

Sean King
 

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I'm super sorry about the misunderstanding man. I am no suppressor expert....let's just get that out of the way. And I apologize if I came across as one of those assholes b/c you are 100% right....too damn many of them around the interwebz.

In my case (can only speak to Maxflos I have)...if it was even the top 3 or even 4 baffles and end cap, I could just replace those by unscrewing them, getting the parts warrantied and screwing it back together. The design is such that the end cap doesn't screw onto the can's body, so replacement is pretty simple.

In a sealed can, how would you know how far back in the can the damage is until you cut it apart (not trying to be dick....just don't understand how that works)? Seems like a lot of cutting then rewelding.....and that's not something most people are going to be able to do themselves.

I agree that sintered metal 3D printing is the wave of the future....for a lot of things...cans included.

Are the Sig cans 3D printed? And do you know about any bbl restrictions/full auto ratings (not that I have F/A....just that it's a good indicator of how robust the mfg thinks their can really is)? I wouldn't be opposed to another can...and if the Sig is lighter....I could definitely see picking up a 5.56 or another .308 can frankly.

Thanks for the reasoned reply and exchange of info. Again, my sincere apologies for getting off on the wrong foot.

Kind regards,

Sean King
You are absolutely fine my man! Yeah the new sigs are metal printed titanium or inconel. I haven't been given any info on them yet other than whats available to the general consumer so i can't say whether they are fa rated or not officially but their videos shows it on the new ngw program belt fed (in the new 6.8 which is substantially hotter than 308) so i'm assuming eventually they will come out and say yes. For comparison, the TDS printed cans are belt rated and no minimum barrel length. They show theirs on a 12" FAL which would destroy most cans. They claimed you would melt the barrel before you could melt the suppressor because of the properties of inconel (i think they put more nickel in it or something like that?) having a higher melting point. Sooooo if the sig's are even similar inconel there won't be anything out there in the category its designed for that can hurt it. My biggest draw was the accomplishment of designing and making a can that has LESS blowback than a rifle WITHOUT a can. That's impressive in my book. Along with that they say the new blackout specific can (which can run any 308 but its internally designed for blk) is 4 decibels quieter than the previous srd762ti that was (unofficially) the quietest 300blk setup thats ever been made. Now i dont have a db meter but to my ears its noticeably quieter so id say their claim is substantiated. At least to MY ears it is. Very impressive. I had to go out of town for my other job so i didn't get hardly any time with it and didn't shoot it fa but when i get back in a few weeks thats my plan. Making a video comparing the cyclic rate without, with old, and with new. Should be interesting. I did one a while back with the TDS so i want to replicate it with the new sig designs now. I'll see it i can link that video its pretty cool. I had another guy split screen it and set the timing the same in slow motion and you can see the backpressure differences easily.

Heres the video, i just reposted it as im not computer savvy: Facebook

If you're better with tech feel free to snag it and post it within a post so others can enjoy, and wait for part two after i get home....

Have a great night!
 
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