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Agrees with camera pics pretty well.
At night, set the shutter speed to "B". Trip the shutter, take a shot, close the shutter. If you're good at timing (which I'm not all that good with) you can use a 1 second shutter speed and a remote shutter trigger.

My plans have more of that in the future - not for flash suppressor use, but for finding the best pistol powder for flash.

The camera method captures the "worst case" though - often times worse than what your eye picks up at night.

FWIW, I went from the Vortex to the Phantom variety that accepts their can...... no difference in percieved flash at night, and that DOES include looking at the muzzle sideways (firing with the left thumb, muzzle in front of your face, firing left to right).
 

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1000% flash elimination... for about .00 too :p
The Vortex does work very well, even on much shorter barrels. Back in the early 1980s I saw Tim La France demo his prototype M16K at a practical pistol match. It had a Cutts-type compensator installed, and even in bright sunlight there was a brilliant, beachball-sized, muzzle flash.

For production M16Ks he installed a Vortex on the 8" barrel, completely eliminating flash.
 

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Agrees with camera pics pretty well. At night, set the shutter speed to "B". Trip the shutter, take a shot, close the shutter.
I can confirm that method works. About 25 years ago I used it to photograph muzzle flash of all commercially available 9mm, .45 ACP, .38 Spl, and .44 Spl JHP ammo.

Since it was necessary to conduct several such sessions, and I was doing them on public land about half a mile from Mexico, I kept wondering when the Border Patrol was going to stop by to check on all the nighttime shooting. ;D
 

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I used to have Phantom FH's on my rifles and although they worked pretty well they were not as good as the Vortex. I now have Vortex FH's on my 16" 6.8 SPC, 7.5" 5.56, 11" 5.56, 12" 5.56, & 10.5" 5.7x28 and have ZERO flash even at night.

MadDog :2cents:
 

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True, but you can't thread a can on over a vortex.

Yeah, I know Ron's name is on some cans that work with the vortex...... but a mentor of mine warned me about the ones that clip on versus thread on.

ETA: there's no such thing as a free lunch. The Phantoms tend to crack along the thin areas between the tines - somewhere around 75,000 rounds.
 

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Bravo: Being a lefty I have stopped using cans on ALL of my rifles except the AR57 which ejects the brass down the mag well. I have tried every fix known to man but still get a lot of blow-back in the face. Even my XCR with the gas setting on S gives me enough blow-back to make using a can a pain in the ass. You will always get a good amount of blow-back from the ejection port which sits right if front of a lefties face.

MadDog :banghead:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have a question to all the lefties out there. When you drive a manual transmission, you use your left hand. Being a righty, it always made sense for me to use my right hand when shifting gears. Is it possible for you, as a lefty, to (re)train yourself to use the weapon the same way a right does? This way you do not have to worry about blow back or even brass flying in your face. I understand that it would be difficult to do and perhaps unnatural at firts, but I think eventually it would become mare natural for you.

I know I used to be right-handed left-eye dominant and I had to train myself to become right-eye dominant. Now closing my left eye when aiming is as natural as using my right hand to... well, use your imagination! ::)

Just wondering..
 

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Ok so I looked at the vid, what makes the vortex so much better in it ability to disperse the muzzle flash? Someone please school me since I am in the market for a new flash suppressor. Be genital Im still a NooB!
 

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Croaker: I don't know the mechanics of the Vortex but I do know a lot of research went into Smith's design and it just works. I have fired mine in TOTAL darkness and there is absolutely NO flash that can be seen.

If it works it's good enough for me. I will leave the science up to someone with more brain cells then me.

MadDog :doh:
 

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Yup, oops LOL
 

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I have fired mine in TOTAL darkness and there is absolutely NO flash that can be seen.
Exactly.

I did the same thing with the Phantom. The only light was a dim / dull blue flame an inch or so long outside the flash hider, a dim / dull yellow flame within the flash hider.

Again, I fired these with the muzzle 90 degrees to my face, right in front of me (estimated about 12 inches).

Then I backed off about 20 yards or so (not measured, just estimated) and had one of my buddies fire for me. Again, I was 90 degrees to the muzzle, standing with it directly in front of me. I couldn't see anything at that range.

Like I said, the dim / dull flash was do dim and dull, at 20 yards you just couldn't see it.

In all honesty, I can't remember what ammo I was using at the time though. My guess is that PRVI doesn't have much of any flash retardants in it........
 

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Isn't the reason that the orginal flash suppressor on the M-16 was changed out was because it was an open prong design similar to the Vortex, and tended to snag any available vegetation? Not that I imagine that would be a huge problem in most areas of Iraq or Afghanistan at the moment.

That video and the others I've seen of it don't leave much argument as to whether it's effective though. The only thing I can think of is that the slight twist actually creates a slightly longer contained path for the exhaust gases so that there's nothing left to combust by the time it can expand out past the end of the muzzle.



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Underground: That is the urban myth of why the original 3-prong flash hider was scrubbed for the birdcage. If the vegetation was that heavy and in most cases it was then you got hung up on a lot more than the tip of your barrel which is a pretty small target.

The real reason is because the 3-prong FH just didn't work very well and the A1 and A2 Birdcage worked much better. There is a world of difference in design between the Vortex and a 3-prong. The Vortex has 4-prongs which are twisted and creates some kind of actual "vortex". Part of the Vortex success has to do with "harmonics". Flick the end of a Vortex with your finger and it sounds like a tuning fork. You also hear that same ring when firing.

MadDog :2cents:
 

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I knew that it had been changed out early on, that was just the only reason I had ever heard for that. Good to know.

I don't know that I would buy the vibration of the prongs having much to do with it. Smith admits they were just trying a bunch of different designs, and she just happened to think to try giving it a twist as well. If you 'spin' a gas as it exits a tube, it will travel a longer path than if it had continued straight. That may be just enough to allow any combustion to finish before it exhausts.

Maybe I can get someone interested in doing a CFD model to see what's going on with it. It is interesting that such a simple change in design was so effective.



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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
My question here is do you think it is worth the $50 or so ofr the vortex FH? There are a lot out there that are a lot more expensive and may not do as good of a job.
 
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