[Hersir]

Has there been any information forthcoming about what 7.62x51mm magazine the XCR-M will be using? As someone who thinks we will likely see substantial regulation in 2009, I wouldn't mind picking up a few magazines in anticipation of a XCR-M purchase--or, if I'm lucky, I already own them. Thanks.

 

[DSM]

DPMS pattern

 

[killswitch1982]

DPMS pattern

Yup. POF has some 25rd mags coming out soon that will work too.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

I know I'm going to catch hell for this,but the DPMS magazine I believe is going to be a mistake.It is without doubt one of the best magazines designs for the 7.62 cartridge,but It is going to be hampered by cost and availability in the wake of another A.W.B.We all know it's coming and if it does prices will skyrocket and people will hoard them,either for their own use or to sell to the poor bastard who didn't buy them when he should have.
Either way a rifle without magazines(affordable) will be useless.I hope there will at least be thought given to the G3 mag well lower being offered.Alex is a smart cookie,and I believe he can make the G3 mag work with the bolt hold open and make it drop free.The only problem is development time and R & D costs.If the commitment to one style lower has already been finalized,it may be too late and expensive to change.I guess time will tell.

 

[killswitch1982]

Personally I think IF another AWB ever come it will be a LONG way down the pike. Obama has too much on his plate to be able to try to push another AWB.

The 90's were very anti-gun. Now, not much at all. Yes we have a few idiots who want to ban them, but not like in the 90's. We also didn't have Heller vs. DC on our side back then.

People forget, the '94 AWB barely passed. We've had some real batshit crazy leftists in office for the past couple years and quite a few AWBs proposed, but they all died in comity. However we have had A LOT of pro-gun things passed, like Heller vs DC and the guns in state/national parks bills.

And as for trying to figure out how to last bolt hold open and drop free on G3 mags, who cares? Are drop free mags really THAT important to you? I've done just fine with my M1A and AK with rock in/rock out mags, and I never use my blot release on ANY gun any ways. A charging handle or slide is much easier to use when your gross motor skills go out the window.

Alex. if you figure out how to use G3 mags or even FAL mags, great. They are affordable, reliable, and easy to find. If you can somehow figure out how to do Last Round BHO and drop free mags with the G3 mags while you're at it, great. It's one less thing for the whiners to bitch about.

I know you and your team will do it right whatever you decide.

 

[aziator]

I don't know that you are going to catch hell but I think you will be disappointed. Alex can't in his right mind market a weapon to compete with the POFs/SR-25s/AR-10s of the world and have a substandard mag design just because the price is right. It just wouldn't make sense. The R&D to make the gun run with the mags would be too high. The buying public is used to features such as BHO and drop free, most would probably see a gun without those features as outdated, not cutting edge. You are already looking at a $1500 gun, what is $30 a mag. If you are worried about the price buy a whole bunch right now, that way you can be the guy hording them or selling them for a huge markup. I haven't tried the C-Products DPMS style mag but I intend to purchase a few in the near future.

Directly from the Robarm Website

XCR-M .308

Now that we’ve got the XCR-L where we want, we are diving into the XCR-M which shoots the .308 caliber and other cartridges based on the .308 base. This has become out top priority. We're designing for SR-25/DPMS magazines and AR-10 magazines. If you have a preference, we'd like to hear about it. We may be able to do both. We cannot do the FAL magazine and have 100% reliability.

 

[variablebinary]

They had better be SR25 pattern mags. Anything else would be 10 steps backwards from what HK, FN and Magpul are doing.

HK did not build the 417 around G3 mags

FN did not build the SCAR-H around FAL mags

Clearly LWRC isnt going the poor boy route either

It must be SR25 pattern mags. Anything else would be a mistake.

 

[aziator]

Agreed, cutting edge future or old crap from the past? I am still not sure why Noveske went with AR-10 and not SR-25.

 

[killswitch1982]

The SR-25 mags aren't anything new. They are the same mags that the AR-10 used way back when, before Armalite went with modified M14 mags. They aren't exactly "cutting edge".

 

[aziator]

Agreed, they are not new, but they are not a step backwards either.

 

[Jbpark55]

I think the G3 mag IS the best mag available in the 7.62 NATO cartridge. To me it is the AK of western mags. M1A, FAL, or the DPMS come in 2nd. I know M1A mags won't work very well in the XCR design. Unless you convert then like the Armalite's AR-10 during the ban years. FAL would be another good choice, because of price and availability. Then the DPMS, while they are getting cheaper and more are becoming available. They are still way behind the others. So in the end the G3 mag for me. Simply because they are reliable, durable, available, and cheap.

 

[killswitch1982]

I would rather have it take mags that I can buy RIGHT EFFING NOW and in bulk, that I KNOW are reliable and battle proven than ones that are expensive, hard to find, and in low quantities just because they drop free, hold the bolt open, and "everyone else is using them".

Oh, and the HK-417 was originally designed to take G3 mags.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

Obama doesn't have to push anything,all he has to do is sign it.He has as many anti-gun buddies in the House and Senate as ever before.The whole point is they don't want you to think they're anti-gun now,because they got their ass handed to them when they went to get re-elected after the crime bill passed.There are also more anti-gun zealots among the general population now as well,calling for "common sense" gun control,labeling themselves as progressives.
Anyone who thinks their rights aren't in serious danger from a staunch anti-gun president elect,not to mention a dangerously close to being a supermajority Congress and that there is not potential for disaster concerning our second amendment rights,NEEDS A WAKE UP CALL!!! Heller was a victory yes,but only one battle in a neverending war to defend your liberty.Just because you have an individual right to own your semi-auto 308,does not mean they can't take away the magazines.Or tax ammunition and new firearms out of existence,because no one could afford them.Remember complacency kills!
I have commented several times here on this forum regarding my opinion on the G3 magazines.I didn't go back and read them all but I don't recall ever saying that having a B.H.O and/or a bolt release was a prerequisite to my individual purchase of the XCR-M.The point I was making was simply this:Those two things are what quite a few people look for in a modern fighting rifle.I have an AK,and a PTR-91,and I love them both.They are great tools and would not hesitate to defend myself with either.If I had the choice I would however pick up the XCR over them both(unless I needed the penetration of the 7.62)due in no small way to the superior handing/ergonomics of the weapon.Is is absolutely necessary?No.Is is better to have both features than not, absolutely.
As for your statement:

A charging handle or slide is much easier to use when your gross motor skills go out the window.

I will say only this,first,it's all about your training.It's muscle memory,you do it enough,you do it automatic(or perfect practice makes perfect).Two,logic dictates that pushing the bolt release button on the the XCR that's right under your finger(where your finger should be if your reloading)is easier(and faster) than having to bring up your entire arm/hand to pull back the charging handle(not to mention requires less effort)and move it to the rear,then release it.
There is one more thing I would like to address:

Alex. if you figure out how to use G3 mags or even FAL mags, great. They are affordable, reliable, and easy to find. If you can somehow figure out how to do Last Round BHO and drop free mags with the G3 mags while you're at it, great. It's one less thing for the whiners to bitch about.

Through my keen powers of observation I am going to deduce that by "whiners" you were referring to my post.First,the last time I checked this was a public forum,and opinions were welcome,that is afterall how new ideas are born and shared.That is of course unless you claim to have the monopoly on those.Second,I may be a very opinionated and at times stubborn individual when it comes to those opinions,BUT at NO TIME have I ever resorted to name calling or labeling anyone here.I think that is both fruitless and immature.We don't always have to agree,but we all share(I hope) a very strong belief in the principles on which our country was founded,and at the least,especially on trivial matters,can at least agree to disagree without personal attacks.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

How would the G3 mag be a step backward if you still had BHO and drop free,not to mention decades of battlefield tested reliability and inexpensive availability? Just because it does not look like an overgrown AR15 magazine?

 

[killswitch1982]

Through my keen powers of observation I am going to deduce that by "whiners" you were referring to my post.First,the last time I checked this was a public forum,and opinions were welcome,that is afterall how new ideas are born and shared.That is of course unless you claim to have the monopoly on those.Second,I may be a very opinionated and at times stubborn individual when it comes to those opinions,BUT at NO TIME have I ever resorted to name calling or labeling anyone here.I think that is both fruitless and immature.We don't always have to agree,but we all share(I hope) a very strong belief in the principles on which our country was founded,and at the least,especially on trivial matters,can at least agree to disagree without personal attacks.

I wasn't aiming that directly at anyone. I have read many forum and blog posts about how someone will not buy something simply because it does not have drop free mags or a last round bolt hold open.

I was merely venting my distaste for those who will not give X a try simply because it isn't like their Y or Z. My dad got along fine in Vietnam with out a bolt release and drop free mags. There are plenty of insurgents that get along just fine with AKs that have neither a bolt hold open or drop free mags.

I was also trying to drive home the point that I would rather get an XCR-Mike that took mags that I can buy a ton of NOW rather than miss out on having numerous spares simply because it had mags that are not near as affordable or abundant. I was trying to drive home that point because, yes I do understand that we are not out of the woods and shit may happen. We may get an AWB shoved down our throats week 1 of High Lord Obama's tenure as our POTUS Elect. I don't want to spend $150 for pre-ban mags like KAC was charging during the last ban.

And again, I do sincerely apologize if you felt my "whiners" comment was directed on you. That was not my intent.

 

[killswitch1982]

How would the G3 mag be a step backward if you still had BHO and drop free,not to mention decades of battlefield tested reliability and inexpensive availability? Just because it does not look like an overgrown AR15 magazine?

It wouldn't to be honest.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

For better or worse I find myself quoting the bible more and more as I get older,but as wise King Solomon once said "the taking of offense rests in the bosom of the stupid ones".So the apology may be mine to give.Either way,I may have overreacted,that was not my intention either.
As for the G3 magazine,we are in agreement that it is better in many ways.The main point I was making is that if/when the "M" gets built,and I believe it will,I want to be able to buy magazines for it.Not just now but in the future.I hold no crystal ball,but given past experience,I want what makes the most sense,to me anyway.As I've mentioned on another post,not everyone has limitless funds to put $400 in 10 DPMS magazines when you could buy roughly 130 G3 magazines for the same money.Did I mention also the hundreds of thousands of surplus G3 magazines floating around? Just something to think about.BHO and drop free are important to me,but not deal breakers.

 

[variablebinary]

Everyone has an opinion and are entitled to weigh it, but Alex is never going to build the XCR-M around G3 or FAL mags. Sorry. It's best to come to terms with this fact sooner rather than later.

All the features and ergos of the XCR-L will present on the XCR-M, and SR25/DPMS pattern mags are the best, most reliable way to make that happen

 

[aziator]

I will not argue that availability and price is a big concern. I wish I didn't have to drop as much on a 9mm M&P Magazine as I do on 3 Pmags. I guess I misspoke when I said that the G3 mags represent a step backwards. yes, they are reliable and proven. I, like any other competent shooter, could learn to shoot without BHO and a drop free mag. I like those features now that I am used to them but I am sure I could live without them.

As VB stated, the XCR is billed as the rifle that isn't happy with the status quo. It is marketed as taking everything up a notch. Again, Alex can't say those kind of things and release a rifle without BHO or drop free mags. Sure, he could design it for G3 mags and leave it up to the end user to modify mags for BHO but that would be difficult.

I don't think we will see anything other than SR-25 mags. My advice is start purchasing a mag each month, spread it out a little. If I am wrong you can always sell them.

 

[dont_tread_on_me]

I agree that the bho and the drop free are required for the "M" to be considered the same as the "L" in that it is a modern,forward thinking rifle.I honestly think it would not be that hard to design the rifle to work with the G3 mags to provide bolt hold open,and release,given proper design of the part that actuates the bho to move upward,or it could be just as simple as designing a new follower.The drop free I'm not so sure about,I believe it could be done,but as mentioned could take a fair amount of r&d and expense.I'm sure all these things were given consideration by Alex before a final decision was made on what magazine to use.I just hate for the "M' to debut,be out for say less than a year,and then be knocked out of production(or severly hamper sales) IF there were another AWB because of magazine availability/cost.
There is still a need in,my opinion,for a good modern(key word)platform for the 7.62x51.I think the XCR-M will fill that role better than maybe any that have come before it.I know that's a strong statement,and it is only my opinion.I know there are other good designs out there both old and new that can fill that role,but I mean the best combination of features for a reasonable price.The POF and SCAR heavy are both way over the projected cost of the "M".I'm not picking on them in particular,just mentioning most other semi-auto rifles chambered for the old 30 cal are to say the least expensive.The point is the "M" has a real chance of being extremely competitive,I think to a greater degree than the "L",simply because it's alone in it's Field,at it's price point.I think the COBB solution may have been the best I have seen yet at solving this potential magazine problem.