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Discussion Starter #1
What's the appeal of a Short Barrel Rifle? Don't you loose long range accuracy and muzzle velocity? Isn't the 16" barrel short enough for close combat?

I'm just curious.

Regards,
Crashy
 

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Big muzzle blast and flash. And when you're tired of that, you slap on a suppressor for the cool factor. They're also pretty handy. Otherwise, yeah, you lose ballistic performance.

Personally, I like longer barrels. I've been surprised that some stubbies perform as well as they do, but I prefer 18"+. The XCR at 16" is as short as I care to go. It's also why I like bullpups. Then you don't give up much to stubs in OAL, but you still have a longer barrel.
 

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What's the appeal of a Short Barrel Rifle? Don't you loose long range accuracy and muzzle velocity? Isn't the 16" barrel short enough for close combat?

I'm just curious.

Regards,
Crashy
Any MK18 or Colt commando will make Marine Corps 500 yard qual, not that it matters because if you want range an SBR is the wrong tool

Muzzle Velocity is a big deal with M855 and M193 ammunution, in accordance with Hague rules governing warefare, that is what our military uses. Personally I use 75gr TAP, and most LEO agencies use something other than M855 and M193. The military uses MK262 as well.

Ballistic testing with 75gr and 77gr ammo and SBR weapons have shown excellent results. In addition, taking kill house CQC training is easier with SBR's.

This puppy has seen a couple of entry level classes in a different configuration. Swing it around a few times indoors and the joys of SBR's will manifest

 

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What's the appeal of a Short Barrel Rifle? Don't you loose long range accuracy and muzzle velocity? Isn't the 16" barrel short enough for close combat?

I'm just curious.

Regards,
Crashy
You already know the answer ;)

As the trade off for less range and velocity, you get a lighter and handier package that excels indoors and at close ranges.

Plus, just have a look at Prizm's sbr'd xcr... try to tell us you don't want that :eek:
 

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Variable and Magik have it right. Yes, there is a loss in velocity, and because of that, longer distance accuracy may suffer, but I've shot that 11" to 300 yards with solid hits on poppers and that's good enough for that package. Most of my shooting and training is of the CQB persuasion as I feel that is the most likely situation where I might have to use such force. Run through a live fire house during a clearing exercise a few times and then the beauty of the SBR comes immediately to light. I think it's easier (faster) to pick up targets with it as well.

I've talked with an instructor @ TDI about the SBR thing and he stated something like this: The bullet only needs to make contact with the barrel over a few inches and that sets the course for it's general accuracy. He mentioned some guy who can shoot a snub nose revolver to 200 yds accurately. He's a very knowledgeable person, lives tactical training everyday of every year, and you've probably heard of him. That being said I don't think he has any reason to lie to me. At any rate my shorty shoots great.

This is a target from this past weekend. An IPSC target 100 yds, prone, firing about a shot a second. Optic is an IOR 1.4-4x, set on 4x, first time it's been zeroed and used, S&Bm193. Not bad for a short battle rifle.


I must note that my XCR is and has always been heavy compared to my other SBR's, and now with that IOR it's 10.5 lbs, unloaded (weighed on a bathroom scale).

I recently bought a 9.25" POF gas piston upper. Can't wait to see how that shoots. Such a compact package.
 

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Swing it around a few times indoors and the joys of SBR's will manifest

Crashy,

VB's statement pretty much tells you, but not only the joys, but necessity of a short shoulder fired weapon, like getting it in and out of a vehicle, firing from a vehicle, or just about any indoor enviroment. Ever picked up and shouldered an MP5 or UMP? Where ever your support hand goes, so does the muzzle. It's also true w/longer barrels but we're talking about close quater where speed and accuracy need to be intinctive. If your get a chance, feel it out.
 

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Here is my MK18-ish build:



It does indeed provide a significant advantage in maneuverability over a 16" in tight quarters. Almost every month, our 3-gun match features at least one corner where everyone else has to swing their muzzle up or down to get around it, and I don't.

You just have to remember this carbine's role. It is intended to replace a pistol caliber subgun, not a main line fighting rifle. Vs. an MP5, it has similar size and weight, far more punch, better/familiar/faster ergonomics, wider variety of ammo selection, far greater range/flatter trajectory if a longer shot does happen to be required. Downside is that the blast and flash are quite a sight to behold, but that can be mitigated with the right flash hider or compact suppressor. Of course it does give up a lot ballistically to a full length rifle, but that is not what it was meant to replace.
 

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VB's statement pretty much tells you, but not only the joys, but necessity of a short shoulder fired weapon, like getting it in and out of a vehicle, firing from a vehicle, or just about any indoor enviroment. Ever picked up and shouldered an MP5 or UMP? Where ever your support hand goes, so does the muzzle. It's also true w/longer barrels but we're talking about close quater where speed and accuracy need to be intinctive. If your get a chance, feel it out.
[/quote]

Boy, you got that right, i303. I have a USC/UMP conversion with the 8 inch barrel and that thing is dead on, and oh so light.

Here's an old pic of my shorty. It's got a different stock gas block, and optics now, plus the addition of Pmags. One of these days I'll take an updated photo. The other is my UMP conversion.



 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the replies.

I've never tried an MP5 or UMP. Actually, I'm relatively new to guns (bought my first gun about 7 months ago).

So 4" off the barrel makes a huge difference in close quarters? I find that surprising, but I don't doubt everyone's experience. I thought a 16" carbine, like the XCR, would be good for both close quarters and long range.

I guess I'll just have to try it out for myself. =)

Regards,
Crashy
 

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VB's statement pretty much tells you, but not only the joys, but necessity of a short shoulder fired weapon, like getting it in and out of a vehicle, firing from a vehicle, or just about any indoor enviroment. Ever picked up and shouldered an MP5 or UMP? Where ever your support hand goes, so does the muzzle. It's also true w/longer barrels but we're talking about close quater where speed and accuracy need to be intinctive. If your get a chance, feel it out.
Boy, you got that right, i303. I have a USC/UMP conversion with the 8 inch barrel and that thing is dead on, and oh so light.

Here's an old pic of my shorty. It's got a different stock gas block, and optics now, plus the addition of Pmags. One of these days I'll take an updated photo. The other is my UMP conversion.

[/quote]

Definitely try to get some new pictures with the ior. I've been considering that scope for quite a while, and I know I've never seen one on an xcr...
 
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