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I can only comment on those I have used, but this is the probably order, though actual choice would depend on the intended role;


Steyr AUG
ROF SA80 L85A1 (A2 improved version post cold war)
SIG SG550/550
Galil-ARM
FN FNC
HK53
HK93
Diemaco C7/C8
GIAT FAMAS F1/G1 (G2 was better - Post cold war))
Colt M177E2
Beretta AR70
 

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G36 is a nice rifle except it was post cold war.
 

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Valmet in service is 7.62x39.
 

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Favorite for what purpose?
 

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Self defence, target shooting or if military or swat, close combat, genreal purpose...For what?

If I had to pick just one, L85A2.
 

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GAU 8 is a .308 weapon anyway.
 

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Sorry, getting confused with the GAU2B.
 

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It you took an M16, you'd probably find parts easliy enough. Again, what would the rifle be for?
 

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Ok, L85A2
 

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I'd have an L85A1, and upgrade it then.
 

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M118, you hit the nail on the head.

When I picked up my DSA FAL, for a joke I told my wife I could take it apart in less than 30 seconds with my eyes closed and then reassemble it 30. she called my bluff, and despite not having used or carried one for almost fifteen years I did it. I picked the SA80 for the same reason, and because you wanted a 5.56 rifle. You should pick the weapoin you are most effective and comfortable with. to pick a rifle you have limited or NO experience with would be plain dumb.
 

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Ever used one?
 

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Exactly, because of the bulpup nature the weight isn't as much of an issue, and it stabilizes the gun during fire. It amazes me how many people knock it, especially when they have never used it. To me that is simple ignorance.

The British Army team beat all comers at Bisley and had no jams or malfunctions in 60,000 fired rounds. Invididual infanstymen making reglar jits out to 600 yards makes the SDM role redundant in the British army. The LSW guys can make hits out further too.
 

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0313, That's the British government for you.

VB, magazines stopped falling out of the L85A1 in 89 when they fixed the shroud around the release button, so that hasn't been an issue in 19 years! Same with the fix for the safety bar.

You are right it isn't an accident that the SA80 is not used outside of the UK, other than by one Commonwealth country. Britain isn't trying to sell the rifle abroad and certainly not to civilians within it's borders.

The early M16 had more issues than the SA80. If you look at the forum, even the XCR has had a fair percentage of issues, such as the ejector falling off and such. At least we weren't dumb enough to issue a rifle without a cleaning kit, and particularly not one that fouls itself. No one died in fire fight because the SA80 jammed. It's interesting because despite the M16 being a POS in early use your country not only procured them for the initial target users but replaced a far more reliable weapon for it wholesale. The British forces didn't release the L85A1 to many of it's forces until the initial round of upgrades were performed. Many of us stayed with the L1A1 until we were happy with the switch. It's not the best rifle in the world but it has no lethality issues, is accurate and when cared for is reliable.

As for 'selling' you asked for an opinion and got one. Just because you don't like an opinion, it doesn't make it wrong. So quit being such a childish asshole. Feel free to read and article and form an opinion as it's quite apparent that apart from reading and pretending, you actually have little real world experience and follow the definition of 'wannabe' rather closely.

Shame, you seem to have real passion for things, it's a pity you aren't capable of a little more objectivity. Perhaps you should stop talking bollocks, regurgitating other peoples opinions and sign up and serve your country rather than talk crap. That way you could actualy have an opinion that has value, possibly even perform a magazine change in less time than it takes to have tea and crumptes at the Ritz.

Toodle pip!
 

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"Listen bitch", are you gay. Sorry have to ask because that's seems to be a standard gay comeback. Also can't listen, no audio!

I guess I stuck a nerve then! Been called worse eh!. Well I would have but it's a fairly polite forum, at least until you pipe up with more garbage. Mind you it's nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't think much of you. Take a ticket, just how many people are there that think you are a twerp, sorry dumb ass. Anyway, laugh away, stupid inconsequential usually do, they laugh to hide their own inadequacy and embarrassment. It's like self defense thing apparently.

Regarding the defensive comment, pot-kettle. You seem to get really defensive when someone goes against your thought path. Do you actually curl up and cry or do stand in front of a mirror telling yourself one hundred times that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

Want to now what is wrong with this great country? You, your attitude and that of people like you. For the most part, people here are fair minded and open, you come across as that annoying noise in a crowded restaurant that just won't go away. The loudmouth at a bar who has to be heard. The good looking chap eyeing up the girls telling everyone he is the ultimate player but who just can't summon the guts to go talk to the pretty girl. We have a phrase that sums it up, "all full of piss and wind".

Oh and by the way, you started this so feel free to finish it. I'm sure everyone else could do with a laugh. For this thread, I'm done. Lex my appologies, same to the other forum members. VB, you're not worth the effort and, frankly, I have meetings to attend.
 

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Actually I agree with VB on that, yes I know I know try not to faint. But being likeed to ARF is really insulting. At least I stopped before it got personal.
 

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I wouldn't say made up. We just stopped insulting each other on this thread, nothing has changed.

Re: the weight of the SA80. So what. I come form an infantry background, but with little vehicular support and we used to carry L1A1s around. Your lot carried the M14. As for serious issues, not really. Perhaps it's incompatible with US training doctrine but in L85A2 format its now the most reliable NATO issue rifle.

Remember there is always more than one way. Back in '82 the US Navy said the British could not retake the Falklands, yet we did it with eight combat aircraft and a trainload of guts. The US would never go into combat like that without Air superiority, our forces had no choice. Our taqctics etc are different and as was pointed out to me by someone else, out kit works for us. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it does not work.
 

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No offense intended, nor am I trying to start an argument, but I can't help wondering if you would've succeeded if the Argentines had learned how to adjust their bomb fuzes so they wouldn't have had all those failures to detonate after penetrating the hulls of UK ships.
None taken, but remember we lost a lot of ships in that conflict. Exoecets and Pucaras took out our supply ships and ine sweepers as well as two troop ships. Loosing more may have been an issue but the fact remains, we won.

I've always thought that an assault rifle is an assault rifle. Why wouldn't any other 5.56 rifle be just as good as the L85 for Brit doctrine and tactics?
We went for optics and long range accuracy early. Our tactics tend to use rifle fire as the main weapon, not a stop gap before support. We also tend to use full auto much less frequently than US tactics. there is more to it than that but that is the general principle. We wanted accuracy and a single rifle to coverall purposes to simplify logistics. No SMGs or pistols required. No SDM role etc... Simpler that way.

Interesting that when the US switched to 5.56, they went to a rifle significantly lighter than the M14, but when the UK changed, they opted for a 5.56 rifle that's as heavy (or heavier?) than the L1A1. Did the Brits not comprehend the full rationale for using a small-caliber cartridge, or did they just want to avoid "pampering" their soldiers by giving them a lightweight rifle?
Steel is stronger than aluminium and wears less. no arts are considered disposable. Also the weight makes full auto fire much more manageable. If you can't deal with the weight either get stronger or find another job. When we did selection we weren't allowed slings as they make you lazy. Try that for a few weeks.

Different strokes is all..
 

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It's been a long time since that event, but what I can recall of the analyses that appeared in print and video, the consensus was that you Brits would've been in really deep doodoo if the Argentines had been provided with the info necessary to re-fuze their bombs.
Yes and no. Their success rate for bomb explosions was about average for the time, only a couple failed to explode after hitting a ship, so ingeneral their fuzes worked fine. At one point we were down to one helicopter and eight shot up harriers. The air defence screen made it hard for their pilots to stay on target and expect to survive. That is the real reason we didn't loose more ships. We also nailed their morale early on when we sent a Vulcan bomber to take out the Stanley airfield. That meant their air cover was limited to short range outside of the islands themselves. also with the exclusion zone they had difficulty supplying their forces by sea. Overall though everyone who had said we couldn't do it spent a lot of time telling the world how lucky we were when we won. I suppose that is easier than saying, oops we got it wrong, nice plan and well done.

Okay, but aside from the fact that use of the L85 has not done away with the requirement for and use of pistols, that doesn't answer my question. Why couldn't a "flat-top" version of the M16A2 (or a number of other 5.56 rifles) just as easily filled the role of an accurate single rifle for all purposes?
Not really as it would be too long. An L85 has a 20" barrel, so we loose nothing in accuracy or lethality whilst having a short weapon that works whether jumping, CQB or open plain combat. One rifle to do it all. 30.9 inches long with a 20" barrel compared to an M4 at 29.8 inches with the stock folded and a 14.5 inch barrel and questionable lethality. Yes officers still want pistols but at the end of the day it did allow us to replace a rifle and a sub machine gun in the inventory.

That's a very macho attitude, but it kinda sidesteps my point. The main advantage of switching from 7.62x51 to 5.56x45 is that it enables weight of both weapons and ammo to be reduced. If you're going to have an 11-pound rifle, why not keep it 7.62 NATO?
Not really macho at all, simply a fact. Also the 5.56 and M16 was never intended to be a weapon for everyone, LeMay wanted it as a rifle for Airforce support troops, general infantry use was never his original intention. The lightness allowed it to be carried by Airforce personell doing other tasks. As for the caliber change, personally I'd have preferred to stay with the L1A1. The rest of NATO was converting so technically we had to also. Again the L85 20" barrel meant maximum lethality from the ammunition, though we went to the SS109 round from the start. Also for us an 11lb rifle is not a big deal when compared to the rest of our combat load. There was no reason to lighten the rifle as the bulpup configuration aided weight distribution and as it was close to our prior rifle it wasn't seen as a priority.
 

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Stoner tried to sell the AR18 to the ARMY as the improved version of the AR15. It didn't work as the ARMY had already committed to the new weapon. Yes LeMay was the first to order it, sidestepping procurement rules in fact, but it was more popular for some reason.

VB, Regarding steel and aluminium, yes you are right, assuming you consider the aluminium part a service item that is intended to be replaced at specified wear points. With the L85, the upper and lower half are designed to survive the life of the rifle. On the armorers course we were told they chose steel for longevity and ease of manufacture. RE: the Falklands, the US Navy did a study and their response was that it could not be retaken due to the nature of the islands, their distance from Britain and their proximity to Argentina. Both nations had similar weaponry, although the Argentinians did have the Exocet. Reagan 'lent' us some of the latest generation Sidewinders as it gave a good opportunity to test them. thatcher didn't care for the study and told the military to get it done, then stepped aside and let them do their jobs. It's the last time a military has been free to conduct military operations without political interference.

0313, if my not being bothered with carrying an 11lb weapon offends you, sorry. But get over it. How heavy is an AR with a rail and a load of tacticool crap on it? Get over yourself. If you think it is heavy, grow stronger! We didn't get a choice so we got used to it. the Aussies switched to the Aug in 1985, the SA80 wasn't considered for any other nation at that time as it was only just entering British service. The AUG had been in production for eight years by that point. We did a training exercise once with a US unit, they wanted to train up on British tactics etc.... All they did was complain about having to walk everywhere, sometimes 20 miles from site to site. Bitching about not having helicopters etc... Maybe it's just a different ethic.

You want to know who I served with; Initially Royal Signals with various unit postings, then after an injury Royal Green Jackets and my final year was doing some interesting stuff with the RAF Regiment, but for the details of what happened in the middle you need to be a very good friend, which you aren't, and I'd need to be very drunk which is a rarity so I guess you're shit out of luck.

M118, the US AirForce like the British AirForce have good accommodations on base, off base it's a different story. I remember doing some work up at Eglin and they put us in what they considered sub standard accommodations. They were better than our Officers quarters. Hell, I almost didn't go back. Thought about signing up there and then.
 
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