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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would suggest that the left-establishment of the US political class cooperated with the PRC to engineer and release the virus, as a strategy to influence the outcome of the 2020 US electoral cycle. And that the same political class now sees that information is coming out, and is trying to get ahead of the news, in preparation for scapegoating their Chinese partners.

At this point, I'm more inclined to believe laboratory accident leakage, rather than malicious conspiracy. But I don't have sufficient evidence to discount a conspiracy, and given the authoritarian nature of the PRC and it's suppression of information, it's unlikely that such data will ever be available.

The problem is that if this 'conspiracy theory' is even partly confirmed, it opens up all kinds of other 'obviously false conspiracy theories' for further investigation. Which leads to an ignition of public outrage in the USA, and (among other things) potentially a demand for military action against China. And that's a road that leads to civil unrest, potentially civil war, and in the worst case, nuclear winter scenarios.

So, where's the best place to ride out WWIII? New Zealand?
 

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If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would suggest that the left-establishment of the US political class cooperated with the PRC to engineer and release the virus, as a strategy to influence the outcome of the 2020 US electoral cycle. And that the same political class now sees that information is coming out, and is trying to get ahead of the news, in preparation for scapegoating their Chinese partners.

At this point, I'm more inclined to believe laboratory accident leakage, rather than malicious conspiracy. But I don't have sufficient evidence to discount a conspiracy, and given the authoritarian nature of the PRC and it's suppression of information, it's unlikely that such data will ever be available.

The problem is that if this 'conspiracy theory' is even partly confirmed, it opens up all kinds of other 'obviously false conspiracy theories' for further investigation. Which leads to an ignition of public outrage in the USA, and (among other things) potentially a demand for military action against China. And that's a road that leads to civil unrest, potentially civil war, and in the worst case, nuclear winter scenarios.

So, where's the best place to ride out WWIII? New Zealand?
No idea where to ride it out....

But....

Let's not forget that right up until COVID became a pandemic in China, they were having full scale protests in Hong Kong that did not cease until the lockdowns. The "conspiracy theory" that the release was timed to affect the US elections would be two birds with one stone in light of the Hong Kong issues.
 

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No idea where to ride it out....

But....

Let's not forget that right up until COVID became a pandemic in China, they were having full scale protests in Hong Kong that did not cease until the lockdowns. The "conspiracy theory" that the release was timed to affect the US elections would be two birds with one stone in light of the Hong Kong issues.
I’d also say, assuming it was an intentional release, that it was to target and help lock down China. There were (are) problems in many areas of China at the time. Hong Kong, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, China-India border, Nepal, Tibet, Uyghurs, mass flooding, unrest from rural populations and all the usual civil/human rights issues on top. Icing on the cake that it could/would affect 2020 US elections.
 

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Last year's news, today...

This was reported in the middle of April, 2020. There has never been any credible evidence that it came from anywhere but the Wuhan lab. The only question for the last 13 months has been, was it released by accident (and China is too negligent to play with dangerous toys) or was it released on purpose (and China committed crimes against humanity).
As a biological weapon, it quickly proved to be ineffective for wiping out large populations, because it is difficult to get infected and has such a low lethality rate. So it was never a top level weapon. Either investigated and dismissed, or in the process of development.

The people who specialize in "never letting a crisis go to waste" really made the most of this one.
It was scary before anyone figured out how to treat it, but once several 50+ year old medicines were proven to treat and prevent it, the primary effort went into banning and bad mouthing those cheap and readily accessible treatments, to keep the crisis going.
They shut the world down for 15 months before they finally gave up on the dramatic performance.
Fixed an election, took over a country, ended the two system program restoring tyrannical communist control, set up for the retaking of Taiwan, restarted the war in Israel, ended free speech, set up to confiscate guns...
And they were able to do it all by eliminating the ability of anyone to even speak a word of criticism for those 15 months.

How embarrassing that they had to lift the internet and media ban on discussing the origin of the Chinese flu in the Chinese weapons lab, so that the fake stream media could report the facts, after 13 months of denial and failure to divert the narrative.

It's not theory when you observe the conspiracies in action, and can identify the people engaged in the conspiracies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Good summary article here: The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan? - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists


Interesting facts:

EcoHealth Alliance:

EcoHealth Alliance is a New York based, 'Non Governmental Organization'. It received a grant from the NIH to study coronaviruses, and promptly gave a corresponding grant to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. This avoided complications whereby the rules of NIH grants might have disallowed 'gain of function' research (i.e. engineering a virus to infect humans).

Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance, was the writer of a letter that appeared in the Lancet on February 19, 2020, rejecting the possibility of a laboratory leakage resulting in release. This acute conflict of interest was not declared to the Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded, “We declare no competing interests.”

Daszak was also a member of The World Health Organization team that investigated the origins of the virus in Wuhan, and (again) rejected the possibility of a laboratory role.

On December 9, 2019, before the outbreak of the pandemic became generally known, Daszak gave an interview in which he talked in glowing terms of how researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been reprogramming the spike protein and generating chimeric coronaviruses capable of infecting humanized mice.


The National Institute of Health and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID):

From June 2014 to May 2019, Daszak’s EcoHealth Alliance had a grant from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health, to do gain-of-function research with coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Either the director of the NIAID, Anthony Fauci, or the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, or maybe both, would have invoked the exemption in order to keep the money flowing to Shi’s gain-of-function research, and later to avoid notifying the federal reporting system of her research.


Commentary of David Baltimore:

“When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence, with its arginine codons, I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus,” said David Baltimore, an eminent virologist and former president of CalTech. “These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2,”

David Baltimore is a past president of Caltech, one of the world's leading virologists, and recipient of the 1975 Nobel Prize for Medicine for "discoveries concerning the interaction of tumor viruses and the genetic material of the cell."




So basically, it looks increasingly likely that US tax dollars funded the engineering of this virus in China, which then caused massive devastation to both the global economy and human lives. It's also very likely that the person who gained the most from this disaster, Anthony Fauci, was directly responsible for giving the authorizations that caused it.

Your tax dollars at work...
 

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And Daszak sounds like the fox left in charge of the hen house.
 

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It doesn't matter if China released it intentionally or not. The USA will not go to war with China over this. It was too good of a tool for our ruling class and our current Chinese president couldn't be more delighted.
 

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Last year's news, today...

This was reported in the middle of April, 2020. There has never been any credible evidence that it came from anywhere but the Wuhan lab. The only question for the last 13 months has been, was it released by accident (and China is too negligent to play with dangerous toys) or was it released on purpose (and China committed crimes against humanity).
As a biological weapon, it quickly proved to be ineffective for wiping out large populations, because it is difficult to get infected and has such a low lethality rate. So it was never a top level weapon. Either investigated and dismissed, or in the process of development.

The people who specialize in "never letting a crisis go to waste" really made the most of this one.
It was scary before anyone figured out how to treat it, but once several 50+ year old medicines were proven to treat and prevent it, the primary effort went into banning and bad mouthing those cheap and readily accessible treatments, to keep the crisis going.
They shut the world down for 15 months before they finally gave up on the dramatic performance.
Fixed an election, took over a country, ended the two system program restoring tyrannical communist control, set up for the retaking of Taiwan, restarted the war in Israel, ended free speech, set up to confiscate guns...
And they were able to do it all by eliminating the ability of anyone to even speak a word of criticism for those 15 months.

How embarrassing that they had to lift the internet and media ban on discussing the origin of the Chinese flu in the Chinese weapons lab, so that the fake stream media could report the facts, after 13 months of denial and failure to divert the narrative.

It's not theory when you observe the conspiracies in action, and can identify the people engaged in the conspiracies.
As a bioweapon it's like most Chinese made stuff not very good and don't last.
The "accidental" release wasn't the weapon just the primer, the weapon is the vaccination
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have recently heard the somewhat bizarre (to my mind) line that the problem was that the NIH didn't give the Wuhan Institute of Virology enough funding. With more of the US taxpayer's money, the Chinese government would have been able to better contain the virus and it would never have escaped their lab. So what we really need to do is provide more funding to the PRC's bio-weapons research.

Watch for this to become the new line from the US left-side political class...
 

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I have recently heard the somewhat bizarre (to my mind) line that the problem was that the NIH didn't give the Wuhan Institute of Virology enough funding. With more of the US taxpayer's money, the Chinese government would have been able to better contain the virus and it would never have escaped their lab. So what we really need to do is provide more funding to the PRC's bio-weapons research.

Watch for this to become the new line from the US left-side political class...
I'm not sure that's entirely wrong, but it does go against all prior reports dating back to something like 2014 or 2017 (and definitely by 2018: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/) from researchers from various countries stating that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was ripe for an accident b/c of lax safety protocols and poor containment measures. It wasn't just a lack of funding; visitors (at the time) noted the scientists working there weren't appropriately trained to be handling such virulent viruses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think I'm just impressed with the level of reality denial in the idea.

"If we give these people millions of dollars in funding, and they use it to unleash a plague that devastates the world, that means we ought to give them more funding..."

The world is crazy.
 

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The narrative that I see being pushed is "The amount of money the US donated was miniscule. It bascally was only enough to be given the results of the experiments. "
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Interesting analysis if you haven't seen it.


Might actually deserve it's own thread, but I'll just post it here for now.
 

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Interesting analysis if you haven't seen it.


Might actually deserve it's own thread, but I'll just post it here for now.
Very interesting premise.....and seems to be pretty valid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I got that document from a physician, and so far I've asked two other physicians to look at it. None could find any flaws in the data or logic. All three are on the 'right side' although at least one was a 'mask nazi' throughout the pandemic.

My next test is to send it to one of my super left friends who is a bio professor at one of those lefty New England liberal arts colleges and see what holes he can poke in it.
 

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I got that document from a physician, and so far I've asked two other physicians to look at it. None could find any flaws in the data or logic. All three are on the 'right side' although at least one was a 'mask nazi' throughout the pandemic.

My next test is to send it to one of my super left friends who is a bio professor at one of those lefty New England liberal arts colleges and see what holes he can poke in it.
Keep us informed...sounds like a fun experiment.
 
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