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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know....you guys have too much on your plate as it is, but I have to ask if you've considered making some sort of BUIS (folding or fixed) that would work specifically with the XCR and the folding fixed tubular stock?

To be honest, when I first looked at the XCR, I didn't care for the looks of the stock at all. After buying one (intending to put on a UBR stock I bought specifically for this rifle along with a set of Troys and a 1/2" CTR cheek riser), I've come to realize this stock is an absolute work of art.

It's rock solid, the adjustments to eliminate rattle are nothing short of genius, it's incredibly light for its strength....overall, it's just impressive.

My only complaint (and one that I've read several times regarding the XCR in magazine and internet articles as well as on forums) is that if you try to use traditional AR sights, they sit too high to get a good cheek weld with the rifle unless you get a CTR type stock/cheek riser.

To solve this problem and keep this great stock, I spent $300 (ouch!) on a set of HK diopters for this rifle to go with this stock as they are roughly 1/2" lower than standard AR flip up irons. I eventually plan to get the LaRue HK "medium" mount for the Aimpoint Micro T-1 to complete the package.

However, at that price, it's pretty prohibitive to most people...not to mention the HK sights are hard to come by and sold in limited quantities. Judging by the quality of the machining done on the XCR, a set of sights would be within the realm of possibility from RA and a set of folding BUIS would be of great benefit to people trying to mount traditional scopes with eye relief requirements.

Other options might be to somehow redesign the folding mechanism to raise the stock higher (but that may make it impossible for the rifle to eject with the stock folded unless the angle at which the stock folds is altered) or going to the new folding stock RA has planned with a adjustable LOP and comb height.

Just thinking out loud. Certainly not a criticism, just an idea perhaps you haven't considered.

Sean
 

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They've talked of it. Alex has always wanted to make some... but with the R&D plate so full, I don't know when they would or if they would.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cool. Just a suggestion. My problem (at least for my first XCR) is solved with the HK diopters. I just don't know how many people will be willing to spend $300 on sights.

Sean
 

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well i would assume that the dovetail on top of the gas block is there to accept some sort of sight. It would be silly of them to go though the expense of machining it, without some sort of use for it. (now or in the future) :2cents:
 

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I'll be glad when Magpul releases their plastic BUIS. Around 100 bucks for both I believe.. specially for something that you won't be using very often if ever.
 

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I had a chance to play with the magpuls last week and they are nice. Well worth the :2cents: if you ask me. I am almost to the point that I don't even want BUIS on my guns. All of them have optics. Even in the batteries go bad and I don't have spares (highly unlikely) I can still just keep a man size target centered in the Eotech/Aimpoint viewfinder area and hit said man sized target. I am finding more and more that the BUIS are just added weight. I wonder how many bad guys have been killed in OIF/OEF by guys falling back to BUIS??
 

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I had a chance to play with the magpuls last week and they are nice. Well worth the :2cents: if you ask me. I am almost to the point that I don't even want BUIS on my guns. All of them have optics. Even in the batteries go bad and I don't have spares (highly unlikely) I can still just keep a man size target centered in the Eotech/Aimpoint viewfinder area and hit said man sized target. I am finding more and more that the BUIS are just added weight. I wonder how many bad guys have been killed in OIF/OEF by guys falling back to BUIS??
Thats the exact reason why I refuse to blow over 100 bucks on both BUIS's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My problem is getting a repeatable cheek weld without using the irons to help guide me in.

I guess I just need more practice, but it just seems like I'm not in the same position every time meaning my red dot point of aim will be different.

JME,
Sean
 

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I guess I just need more practice, but it just seems like I'm not in the same position every time meaning my red dot point of aim will be different.
You must be using a junk optic.

Aimpoints and Eotechs and Parallax free, so once the optic is zeroed you dont even need cheek weld. Your face doesnt even need to be on the stock. Where the dot is, the bullet goes. Doesnt matter if the dot is in the top corner of the objective or in the center.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess I just need more practice, but it just seems like I'm not in the same position every time meaning my red dot point of aim will be different.
You must be using a junk optic.

Aimpoints and Eotechs and Parallax free, so once the optic is zeroed you dont even need cheek weld. Your face doesnt even need to be on the stock. Where the dot is, the bullet goes. Doesnt matter if the dot is in the top corner of the objective or in the center.
Well, thanks for your input, but just so you know, I have both an Aimpoint Micro T-1 with a GG&G mount and a ML3 in a LaRue mount. I said it "seems" that way to me and that I obviously need more practice.

Just giving my experience and looking for a little insight.

Sean
 

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I would like to see them make a killer Diopter style sight. ;D
 

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I guess I just need more practice, but it just seems like I'm not in the same position every time meaning my red dot point of aim will be different.
You must be using a junk optic.

Aimpoints and Eotechs and Parallax free, so once the optic is zeroed you dont even need cheek weld. Your face doesnt even need to be on the stock. Where the dot is, the bullet goes. Doesnt matter if the dot is in the top corner of the objective or in the center.
Well, thanks for your input, but just so you know, I have both an Aimpoint Micro T-1 with a GG&G mount and a ML3 in a LaRue mount. I said it "seems" that way to me and that I obviously need more practice.

Just giving my experience and looking for a little insight.

Sean

Aimpoint also cautions that anything 50m and closer the shooter should try to center the dot as much as possible because their is a slight amount of parallax related error. If your goal is to hold your shots on an Ernie it won't much matter one way or the other where that dot is at most any range. If you're looking for Minute of Tin Can or better accuracy it might make some difference though, but not much. Accuracy is nothing more than consistency so any shooter's goal is to do it the same way every time.

I don't think those T-1s or ML3s are junk for the record!
 

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Interesting.....

I've used my M3 / XCR on the Appleseed AQT before. 600 yard siloughette, reduced to 25 meters.
IIRC, I ran something like 2 points under perfect.

If there's some paralax involved, it can't be much. The 5 and V are covered by a penny (well, some sticks out from under the penny, but there are parts that are more than covered by the penny too just 'cause the 5 isn't circular).

Maybe I was slow and getting the dot in the center of the optic during the slowfire prone stage (just 'cause it was slow and I always run for perfection) but I know I certainly wasn't concerned with that on the rapidfire stages.
 

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Bravo- you're right, that amount of parallax is very negligible close-in. We tried it to prove a point to some new guys and it hardly shifted the impact 1/2" at 25m, and that was purposely going to the very extremes of the sight picture. Sort of an aside but still related to short distance and a big thing a lot of folks have trouble with, and not of their own fault, is the lack of full distance ranges and/or practicing at varying distances. With the 1/3 cowitness being the rage now (and raising that sight), your line of sight over line of bore is dramatically different. Even with the issue QRP on the M68 if you zero POA/POI you'll bomb when you go to the record fire range. Unless you're putting voodoo on the sights you can be off the Ivan's as close as 150m. Being able to transition to and from various target distances quickly is a good skill to practice.

Now, before the flaming starts, first and foremost, hits count above all. Can you still hit your target with a center gut hold, you bet you can. But's that's also when your target is standing out in the open field with a red "S" on his chest and a cape. People are the darndest creatures because they do things like hide behind stuff to prevent bring shot. Most of the time you won't get that nice 20"x40" silhouette to slug at until you knock it down. But maybe just a part of it if you're lucky.
 

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Interesting stuff!

In all honesty, I don't much like lower 1/3 cowitness. I use the shorty LaRue Aimpoint mount on mine......
And I don't run BUIS.

The way I look at it, if an Aimpoint M2 can survive two tours in Iraq and two in A-stan with my best friend, it's good 'nuff for me.

I would run BUIS if there were some flip-type that were co-witness with the M3 the way I have it set, but since there aren't, I'm not "out" anything.

Using the XCRs the way I've got 'em set up now, I've run these against targets as far away as 400 yards. Those were 1/2 height pepper poppers, and I was hitting 'em every time in a hurry (OK, except for one that took me a couple of shots LOL!). They'd call a target, I'd have to find the one they called and shoot it within 3 seconds. The reason I don't try to stretch the XCRs past 300 generally is 'cause that's (my opinion here) where a carbine really shines. From close to 300. Besides, the data pack on my ammo says it's not as effective much past 300. Not that I figure anyone hit with a round at 400 would spontaneously jump up and start singing show tunes, but if I figure the ranges are going to be much past 300, that triggers my "I really should be carrying a rifle instead of a carbine" red flag.

For close in, they railed us that headshots need to have the dot be at the hairline. Lots of drills on that. That leaves the dot zeroed at 300, so 400 was "put the dot on the head and squeeze" ;D

You're right, movers are more difficult. That's a BIG part - majority - of the reason I went with the M3 over the M2. When I was using the issue M2 (M68CCO), I couldn't hit 100% at 300 in the bright daylight. The 4 MOA dot was just too big. The M3 I run has a 2 MOA dot, and it's CAKE to make headshots at 200.

Just a FWIW!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all the comments guys....I have to get to work so I can't comment much, but I think VB is right. I just didn't (and sorta still don't) understand how the red dot works.

I played around with it last night trying to get a handle on what he meant....I now see (I think) what he was getting at.

Short story is: with the BUIS up, I have to get my head in the same position everytime to get the sights lined up and actually be aiming at the target.....which is co-witnessed with the red dot. So, I mistakenly (I'm pretty sure now) thought that if my head/cheek weld wasn't in the same spot everytime with just the red dot and the irons folded, it would be the same way b/c with them up and my head in a different position, the dot bloomed (letting me know the dot was being blocked by the rear sight aperture in really dark rooms) and I was assuming since the irons were in a different spot, the bullet would go there.

After playing around with it last night, it does seem like wherever the dot is, regardless of what the irons are doing, the POI looks to be at the point of the red dot.

Like I said, I needed more practice....I think I understand the concept a lot more (which is probably completely obvious to everyone else).

The thing is: I don't do this for a living. It's a hobby. I have too many and this one is so freaking expensive, I can't afford to shoot as much as I'd like....largely due to the fact that I've fallen into the trap of buying multiple guns instead of sticking with one and buying/practicing with a lot of ammo. I need to simplify and correct that....that has become obvious.

Again, thanks for everyone's comments.

Sean
 

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You don't have to do live fire to practise mounting the weapon.Try to be as consistant as possible.If you do this for a week or so,and you still can't find or get into your sights like you want,something doesn't fit you right.You have to figure out what you need in order to fix the problem,you shouldn't have to make yourself fit the rifle,If it's not working,you may just need to add a cheekriser or whatever to make it fit you better.Once you find the right combination,you won't have to try so hard to get into your sights.
 

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Sean,

I don't know what kind of stock you're running, but if it's adjustable for LOP, keep it in one position as much as possible. Also, you can also try and find your optimum cheek weld, and where the corner of your lips make contact with your stock and mark it either with a pen. Put a piece of tape with a BB in the middle, so that the BB is right on the spot where the corner of your lips meet the stock. You can put Moleskin over it if you'd like.

Everytime you should your gun your lips should start consistently hitting the spot.

A friend of mine preferred the old style car stocks over the issued LMT SOPMOD because it had a ringed lip on the front that he used as a point of reference.

Don't just try and put your red dot on target and press the shot, you should be trying to consistently get a good cheek weld so you've got four good points of contact on your rifle. Hands, cheek and shoulder.

Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Again, THANKS guys! Very helpful information.

I think I'm finally getting used to the diopters on my first XCR. I also have been practicing with my BUIS folded down and just using the red dot. Cheek weld doesn't seem to matter with the dot....just put it on the target and press the trigger.

Thanks again! ;D

Sean
 
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