XCR ejector - help a non-owner understand

9525 Views 72 Replies 20 Participants Last post by shane45, Dec 4, 2007

G

Discussion Starter · Nov 29, 2007

This forum is very informative so I hope I don't get toasted in flames. I've been following the XCR since it was a rumor and intend to buy one. I visited another forum that some of the members here mentioned and read the whole Pat Rogers thing and it got me thinking. I'm probably not the only other potential buyer that did a double-take. Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly -- but 3 out of 3 had problems? For goodness sakes. Okay, so it's only 3 and not enough to go by -- but 3 out of 3? The average person is not going to spit that many rounds through their rifle in that short amount of time, so to me, it is an interesting test, at least in that regard. (No, I don't have to spray rounds in all directions like Rambo in the shortest amount of time possible - but I do want to know my weapon is solid and dependable.) You know what I mean.

Even a couple of posters here talked about their ejector problems when I did a search. Please finish reading calmly, I love the whole concept of this gun, too. I just want to try to understand. Is the ejector bolt setup something that should be improved? If so, how could it be improved? I'd appreciate if someone would post a close up photo and explain very simply just what the problem is? I couldn't find a good pic. If it's just "use locktite and you're good to go" I guess that's fine - but if there is a better fix possible, then this rifle deserves the very best. Robinson Arms seems to bend over backwards when it comes to improvements (gas system, trigger, new calibers, etc), so just wondering what owners thought. Okay, note I didn't say the sky was falling, just looking for answers. Thanks!

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Aussie Arms

· #2 · Nov 29, 2007

bullrat,

Your questions are valid and no one here is going to jump on you for wanting information. Although I don't have any close up pics "yet", I will attempt to answer your questions the best I can, keeping in mind that it is just my opinion. Please, if anyone else wants to add/differ in opinion please do so because you won't hurt my feelings if the comments are of a constructive nature.

The XCR is a modular type rifle. It has been designed to have parts swapped out for caliber changes, replacement of parts that wear out, and that these parts are replaceable by anyone with a little knowledge, and an owner's manual, using simple everyday tools.

The ejector is a piece of metal that is "bolted" to the inside of the upper to aid in "ejecting" the spent case. Being a bolt on part, these bolts may, and have become loose. Weather or not it's from a lack of "Locktite" or just improper assembly either at the factory or by the owner, I can't say. This rifle is of a unique design and is assembled from a number of parts to form a weapon system. Like ANY weapons system, it will need regular maintenance and cleaning to continue to function properly.

Because it is unique it draws some pretty harsh criticism by people who either don't like change, or feel that their choice of rifle is being challenged as the leader of the pack. Anyone who knows, and/or is an owner of this weapon system, knows too well the quality of manufacture and reliability of the XCR.

In short, if you follow advice and check ALL the bolts and screws on a regular basis you shouldn't have any problems. A number of 'informed' members of this forum are using the XCR in a professional manner, placing their faith behind this weapon system to save the lives of others, and of themselves if needed. I don't think you can get any better endorsement than that.

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sterling99

· #3 · Nov 29, 2007

I was one of the people who did not heed the warning of the ejector bolts.

After approx 500 rounds a ejector bolt did in fact come lose and ended my range day.

Terra and Co was very quick to fix the issue.

I am not a gunsmith and do not play one on TV so I can not comment if this is a "Design Flaw" of the rifle. I know I have put 500 rounds since it went back home and I have had no issues. I do check those bolts every time I go out to the range and thus far I see no play.

Is there a reason one would change the ejector? I do not know. Do you need one to convert to 6.8? I still do not know.

Others more knowledgeable will chime in. I have often thought if you where dedicated to sticking with the one caliber they could be spot welded in?

magikbullet

· #4 · Nov 30, 2007

the 6.8 doesn't need a new ejector. it needs a new bolt, shell deflector, and barrel though...

bullrat, do you want to see some pictures of how the ejector looks in the rifle? there are some threads around here that show how it works.

slag

· #5 · Nov 30, 2007

I used locktite from the get go... and have not experienced any trouble.

sterling99

· #6 · Nov 30, 2007

magikbullet said:
the 6.8 doesn't need a new ejector. it needs a new bolt, shell deflector, and barrel though...

bullrat, do you want to see some pictures of how the ejector looks in the rifle? there are some threads around here that show how it works.

I have always wanted to know this. What is the "shell deflector" is that the part that has the hex screw on the rear of the ejection port?

magikbullet

· #7 · Nov 30, 2007

yep. using one of aussie's pics to demonstrate where the shell deflector is:

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magikbullet

· #8 · Nov 30, 2007

4

bullrat, since you asked and I like pictures, here is the xcr's ejector and ejector bolts:

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variablebinary

· #9 · Nov 30, 2007

This has come up quite a bit recently and since most people are pretty ignorant when it comes to the XCR as a concept and product, snap judgments become gospel

The XCR can be maintained from top to bottom without an armorer and with over the counter tools

The ejector is steel and held by two threaded bolts.

If it breaks or wears down, it can be replaced in your bedroom in about 4 minutes because it isn’t permanently attached to the upper. The price of this of course is it can become loose over time. Loose is not broken. Loose is not a flaw in the overall design or poor QC. Loose is a byproduct of use coupled with armorerless repairs capabilities . Its the reason why we stake the castle nut and gas key on the AR15. Vibrations loosen threaded parts

The XCR manual spells it out pretty clear. 1: INSPECT YOUR WEAPON. 2: If something seems loose, thread lock it down. That is what I did with my gun and it ate over 15 ammo cans on one ejector and wasn’t worn or loose. Then again...I actually read the manual

Now Robinson can go back and replace the current ejector with one that is permanently affixed to the normally unstressed extruded aluminum upper. Now what happens when it wears down? That's $300+ for a new upper. Bad idea. Maybe Robinson can add a spring loaded ejector which is prone to getting stuck with fouling and sand and weak ejection. Another bad idea

If the operator maintains their weapon as outlined in the manual, then they won’t have an issue. It takes 1 minute to thread lock the ejector bolts. "Problem" Solved

I hope this helps clear things up. The XCR upper is not steel so a true fixed ejector just isnt possible. I suppose Robinson could rivet the ejector into place, but then it would almost impossible to replace at home without special tools

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magikbullet

· #10 · Nov 30, 2007

vb3 sums it up nicely... the xcr is made to be eaily maintained, and easily and economically repaired down the road...

EricCartmann

· #11 · Nov 30, 2007

bullrat,

very valid concerns. i myself am concerned too! i was going to take off my extractor bolts and apply red loctite, but my weapon has been reliable so far and... if it ain't broke, no need to fix it. pat rogers has seen 3 out of 3 XCR's fail in his classes, that right there is a problem. You would think 3 outta 10 would be bad enough, but 3 outta 3?

I love my XCR, but right now I really would not trust it in any type of SHTF TEOTWAWKI situation. Who carries red loctite on them in a SHTF situation? Then if you do have to apply the red loctite, you have to wait 24 hours for it to set. Then when you work your weapon hard, it will still come loose.

red locktite is pretty useless at extreme heat, and guns do get hot, so if you work your guns hard, it will eventually come loose. i really don't see anyway around this other than riveting or welding the extractor on.

EricCartmann

· #12 · Nov 30, 2007

variablebinary said:
.... I suppose Robinson could rivet the ejector into place, but then it would almost impossible to replace at home without special tools

Riveters are cheap and rivets are easily removed (just drill the head and it pops right off with no damage other than the removed rivet) I myself would prefer it to be riveted on.... Then if the extractor wears, which should be what? 25k rounds? Then you rivet in a new extractor.

variablebinary

· #13 · Nov 30, 2007

EricCartmann said:
variablebinary said:

.... I suppose Robinson could rivet the ejector into place, but then it would almost impossible to replace at home without special tools

Click to expand...

Riveters are cheap and rivets are easily removed (just drill the head and it pops right off with no damage other than the removed rivet) I myself would prefer it to be riveted on.... Then if the extractor wears, which should be what? 25k rounds? Then you rivet in a new extractor.

No thanks. My blue loctite 222 went about 7500 rounds just fine without issue. Riveting the extractor is bad idea IMHO. And if I am recalling correctly, Robinson doesnt advocate using red loctite on the XCR.

As for TEOTWAWKI and SHTF, AR15 shooters wont being carring a vice block around and SCAR shooters probably wont be carrying around a hex set, G3 shooters wont have a headspace gauge and a welding torch...

va_plinker

· #14 · Nov 30, 2007

This threads moving faster than I can read!

I'm on the loctite from the factory boat.

Only other idea I can think of is to make it a bolt with one of those lock nuts with the Nylon locking rings. They stay put.

not sure how to get the bolt heads flush.

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shane45

· #15 · Nov 30, 2007

Well....it seems to me if I was really worried aout it, I'd replace one of the bolts with a longer one. I would cut it down and round the tip and pop a hole in it and drop a small cotter pin through it. Or, like I do on my rings on my rifles, id make some witness marks so a quick look will tell if they are clocking.

Shane

Aussie Arms

· #16 · Nov 30, 2007

I honestly think that if it needed fixing at a design level, Alex and his engineers would fix it.

There's not too many things that you can create a "fix" thread on the XCR. That says something!

variablebinary

· #17 · Nov 30, 2007

shane45 said:
Well....it seems to me if I was really worried aout it, I'd replace one of the bolts with a longer one. I would cut it down and round the tip and pop a hole in it and drop a small cotter pin through it. Or, like I do on my rings on my rifles, id make some witness marks so a quick look will tell if they are clocking.

Shane

Well I think that is the real joy of the XCR ejector design, if you have any level of mechanical aptitude you can whip up something in your garage that secures the Extractor in a different way. Though, Loctite is the easy and effective route. Nothing lost with this method

cavegeo

· #18 · Nov 30, 2007

From my days as an aircraft mechanic when I was in the Air Force we would safety wire tie the bolts.

The only thing you need to do is to drill the head of each bolt, once done would not have to every do it again unless you wanted to replace a bolt.

Once drilled you then use safety wire and twist the wire tight against the bolt and then pull the twisted wire in the direction that would keep pulling the bolt tight and then thread thru the second bolt, again in the direction that would pull this bolt tight and twist the end and bend it out of the way.

This will prevent the bolts from coming loose and still allow easy maintenance of the rifle. While we used special pliers to this, I have done it quite easily with a regular pair of pliers.

Aussie Arms

· #19 · Nov 30, 2007

That sounds great! Is there enough room in there for that? I haven't looked

magikbullet

· #20 · Nov 30, 2007

I've talked with vb3 about this before, as for the xcr's that failed in that class, I'm skeptical that the issues weren't user related. If you fiddle with the rifle and remove the ejector and put it back on without the loctite you're probably gonna have problems in a class like that. Also, if they had the 15$ worth of spare parts that a serious student should have, they'd have been back up and running in 5 minutes...

eta: I'll also add that heat really shouldn't be a big factor on the loctited bolts since the receiver really doesn't get particularly hot...

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