XCR Forum banner
1 - 20 of 78 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will provide my opinion in detail later tonight, but for now here is a comparison photo of my current XCR-L HBAR compared to the semi-auto civilian version of the SCAR with 16.1" barrel. I dont know who Remov is and take no credit for the SCAR photo.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Its like i said before ,they all are XCR clones. Not the other way around.
Alex is copied by more manufactures than any Fire arms designer in America in recent times, other than the SAA Colt.
We cant put the AR in that list ,it started as a bastard child with many fathers contributing to that.
The AK, only was an original in a being a different type of rifle , but it owes its creators inspiration and concept to the STG44.
Other designs are copied , but the designer or company gets the credit for the concept , Robinson never does .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,010 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I got my XCR HBar configured exactly as you VB, MI sights, Aimpoint and folding stock. Will wait for your report.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,071 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I'm sure the SCAR is a fine rifle and works great. It sure is being touted as the rifleman's savior enough that it better be.

The stock is a little goofy looking. I never understood the point of the front sight folding forward the way it does though. It seems to me that it is asking to snagged and hung up on something that way, hell, might even bend or break it. And what the hell are those things on the sides that look like 1911 magazine bumper pads?!? ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Those rubber things are for Wal Mart parking lot combat.
The Rifleman's Savior ? man thats a pretty big claim ,but i don't doubt they said that .
Ok lets count the Saviors:
Early Viet Nam ,the M16
M16A2, 1x9 twist ,the size of an M14 ,boys this is it.
M4 , 1x7 twist , we got it ,we got it right at last
HK XM8 ,this is the rifle taking us into the next Century !! it bombed real fast ,stocks breaking , and it looked like a Carp.
Stuff they played with:
Valmet V723 , can they make anything besides an AK?
M14 Bull Pup Pleaseee.
Armalite AR 10 , whats the point?
Berreta AR 180 , High Dollar little rascal.
HK 416 ,we are trying to move past that design.
Man thats a lot of Saviors , It looks like a pack of false profits to me.
So i guess it was FNs turn ,there a big company , world renown , kick ass gun , stock made by Nike.
It won the SCAR competition , our finest Military experts all agree .
The same thing they said about the M16 , and i am sure that FN sent a run of the Mill rifle to the SCAR competition.
And the XCR has been out for how long now , all over the place, And with Big Bubba who never cleans anything has 5k rounds through it . And Kaywijo the Eskimo drags it through the snow each day ,pissing on it to thaw it out.
The XCR earned at least a better look . Not that we are all Buddy's crap ,that competition was all about with FNH buying all the drinks afterwords. I know a guy from BM that was there , he said they didn't give the XCR ,or them a Chance making them play strictly by the rules. But they allowed the European guys lot of slack. And he said the XCR was the better rifle in his opinian.
That deck was stacked from the get go. Just like the M16 was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,071 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Slow down there turbo, you cranked her up to '11' on us without warning! ;) Don't wrap your head around the .mil or .gov contracting process, you'll be driven crazy and in padded room status, eating applesauce through a straw by the end of the week!

Never even seen one except in pics so curious as to what VB says about it. No rifle's gonna be perfect for everyone, that's for sure. So lay down the 411 on us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I wasn't bitching , but i have seen a 416 and it looked like any other M4 except it had HK on it.
When my FS 2000 ,did that ,i didn't think a lot about it , but a year later that story comes out in that link i posted and that could have been me .or any one else.
I don't know about the Military ,but LE is hot on big names and keeping up with the Joneses.
One city gets the 416 ,then they all have to get it.
One got an Armored Car ,then another one gets a bigger one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I got a chance to play with the 3 SCAR variants at the NRA convention. It's very similar to the XCR. VERY similar.

I'll address of a few of the more...cogent...points.

The sights. It has pretty good sights. The front folds forward since there's no where else for it to go on the gas block. Functionlly, the sights are pretty similar to the KMC 600m sights, which is to say, pretty good. If you don't like the gas block sights, well, you have a whole rail to play with same as the XCR.

The stock is a good one, far better than what we presently have on the XCR. It's adjustable for LOP and cheekpiece height, which makes it quite easy to use AR15 sights and mounts without any contortions to see the sights properly. It locks both open and closed. I'd like to see something similar for the XCR.

The thingums on the sides of the reciever that sort of look like the ejection port buffer on the XCR are the barrel retaining bolts. The SCAR's method of barrel retention is slower to use than the XCR, but also much less likely to unscrew itself during use. A fairly minor thing, but there it is.

Other stuff. The SCAR's lower is plastic and the gun is quite light. Internally, it's very similar to the AR18. It's very easy to field strip and better in this regard than the XCR in some ways. Ergonomically, the gun is pretty good, but the XCR is better. The selector is basically the same as the XCR, but the bolt release is pure AR15. XCR wins here. The bolt carrier and bolt head are less likely to drop out unexpectedly and head for parts unknown, but the charging handle makes up for that by falling out if you're not careful with it. Half a dozen of one, six of the other vs. the XCR. The SCARs I handled had decent triggers. My XCR has a pretty good trigger, but the SCAR was somewhat better; very AR-like. Mag releases were the same, but the SCAR is ambi as a standard option (or at least all three I saw were).

Bottom line: the FN reps stated the SCAR was slated to be offered to the tune of $2995. You can buy a couple of XCRs for that with some change left over. I don't think the gun is worth 2x what the XCR goes for, but if you want one, well, that's what you're up against. I like the gun, but I like the XCR a whole lot as well. The SCAR is much more usable out of the box (good sights, better trigger, the stock thing...), but the XCR is available NOW and does have multiple calibers available. The FN reps didn't have much to say about alternate calibers other than the SCAR-H would be following on the commercial SCAR in a few months. You can take that with however much salt you wish.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,839 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

It's like 5:30 so forgive the spelling and grammer errors. This is just part one till I have both guns covered in detail.

FN brought the SCAR MK16 to a local dealer and I had a chance to put a few mags through it. This was a Class 3 select fire model with 14" intended for LEO sales.

Since I don’t walk around with my XCR everywhere I go, I did not have my personal XCR to do side by side shooting comparisons. I was only able to pull a NIB XCR off the wall and switch off with handling and working the controls.

So, how does the SCAR-L MK16 compare to the XCR-L...

Stock:

XCR factory stock just folds. Very durable, unlikely to ever break, would be better for smashing heads or slamming down on the deck to clear tough jams.

MK16 stock folds, has adjustable cheek height, and adjustable LOP, though I kept the stock fully collapsed and it felt just right in that position. There was some wobble and play on the LOP tube portion, and generally speaking it feels flimsy.

Round one: MK16 due to versatility, but obviously the XCR stock is more durable

Upper Receiver:

Both uppers are extruded aluminum.

The XCR has about half the amount of parts of the MK16, which means the XCR will be easier to build right, build faster and build cheaper. The XCR quad rail is a true free float and part of the upper receiver. You have more rail real estate, and nothing you bolt on can affect POI

Only the top rail on the MK16 is integrated. The side rails are bolt on and very short, so if you like using a VFG close to the mag well with thumb activated lights, forget it. The bottom rail is attached to the barrel (WTF) so bipods, VFG’s and lights could affect POI.

Round Two: XCR. It's just designed simpler and smarter from a manufacturing standpoint. The short SCAR side rails affect ergos and placement of extra gear, and attaching the bottom rail to the barrel is just a poor design choice, espcially considering how the MK13 attaches. Because MK16 barrels are far more complex than XCR barrels, they are sure to be incredibly pricey, by comparison

SCAR barrel




Charging handle:

The XCR charging handle is FAL like and located toward the middle of the receiver on the left side; it also acts as a forward assist. Very beefy and simple, and placed in a location that allows you to mount optics wherever you like. It is non-reciprocating.

The MK16 charging handle is ambi and doubles as a forward assist. The downside is it is very high on the receiver which affects where you can place optics, especially Eotech. You have to mount the optics way to the rear of the gun. Mid rail placement and scout position are out of the question. Doesn’t matter if you are working the charging handle overhand or underhand, you need to give thought to what optics you like and where you like to place them. It is also a reciprocating charging handle.

Round Three: XCR. Reciprocating charging handles have no place on a modern firearm, and the MK16's charging is just too close to the top rail to not have an impact on ergos

Barrel and QD system:

The XCR has 1/9 twist, QD barrel. It has a massive trunnion, and the single retention bolt attaches at the base of the barrel at the trunnion. Thus far XCR barrels coming loose is largely unheard of even though it only uses one bolt. If anything, even with the single retention bolts, XCR users indicated it still requires some effort to pull it out. Barrel changes can be done in about a minute and requires little in the way of precision.

The MK16 barrel has a 1/7 twist, and has 6 retention bolts, some of which directly impact the barrel, while 4 are at the trunnion. To change the barrel requires a special tool, requires more time and greater attention to detail. It’s much easier to affect POI with this system.

Round Four: Close to being a tie. XCR wins for overall design and simplicity, but the 1/7 MK16 twist, and greater number of retention bolts will be regarded as superior by some.

Ejection:

The XCR ejection strength can be tailored via the adjustable gas system. If the weapon is fouled, or operating in freezing temps, or loaded with underpowered ammo, the 4 setting gas system is tool-less (Gen2) can be dialed to ensure strong reliable ejection under all conditions; keeping the gas setting low reduces weapon fouling which increases reliability. Optimum ejection distance is 15-20ft to the 2 o’clock position.

The MK16 ejection is mostly to the 3 and 4 o’clock position and sends brass between 5ft and 10ft. Ejection strength can not be altered. If you encounter weak ammo, harsh fouling, or freezing temps you cant up the amount of gas to offset conditions. It does however have a suppressor mode to reduce the cyclic rate when using a "Can". The XCR has the same feature.

Round Five: XCR. No-brainer

Lower Controls:

The XCR has a single right side mag release, and ambi bolt release that is conducive to slap/tug mag changes associated to modern training techniques. The safety lever is a short throw design. Mag drops and the bolt release can be worked with one index finger. An ambi safety is available as an option

The MK16 has an ambi mag release, and right side bolt release which is akin to the AR15. The safety lever is a short throw design like the XCR, but is comes ambi as a standard feature.

Round 6: Tie. Both have perks the operator would find useful and advantageous

Weight:

The XCR-L with 16" pencil barrel weighs 7.5 lbs. The XCR uses an all metal design throughout. The HBAR model weights 8.1 lbs

The SCAR MK16 with a 14" barrel weighs 7.4 lbs, which will give the civilian 16" model an approximate weight of 7.6lbs. Contrary to internet chatter, there are no weight savings over the XCR despite the MK16 SCAR using a polymer lower. There is no HBAR model currently.

The SCAR balances very similar to the XCR. They both have a slight nose heavy feel.

Round 7: Tie, mostly but the all metal design of the XCR is something I prefer.

To be continued... ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
347 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

After learning they put the lower rail on the barrel I have lost all interest in the SCAR. That is the dumbest, most inexcusable thing about the gun and the worst example of modern firearms design I can think of. It makes the high mounted charging handle look like something that came from MENSA. At first I thought the rail on the barrel was some how to mount an M203 but then I recalled they designed their own grenade launcher for the SCAR. Does the 308 version have the rail on the barrel too?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,071 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I think I read elsewhere that FN is only releasing a set number of rifles too so that price is going to be outrageous for folks to have the 'next best thing'. I never had much interest to purchase a SCAR so I'll help keep the inflation down for the next guy! The only new rifle I've much interest in is the Masada/ACR deal and honestly my XCR does everything that rifle does so when and if they do ever release it is no big deal. I think it would be neat little gun to own too so no flaming me for talking about the "enemy"!


VB- great post with some good info, thanks for getting us all in the know!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Damn right, great post VB! Waiting with baited breath for the continuation. If that msrp is even close to on target......fuggetaboutit! Paaleez! A boutique piece period.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
874 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I just hope that XCR-M comes out quickly. I am dying up here in Canada without a 308 XCR. I love my XCR-L but it is temporary out of commission waiting for the heavy hammer for it. The Masada/ACR and SCAR will never see Canadian Soil for civies I am afraid so the XCR is my only hope plus I think its a better platform anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Bohemus is right. The SCAR is going to be a boutique piece. I can see it coming.

It'll be just like 1987-88 and the FAMAS imports. There'll be a very few, they won't be cheap, they'll never be imported again, and they'll appreciate wildly among collectors. I recall that very well since I was just out of school and had no money and wanted one in the worst way. $1500 that summer they showed up (saw them at Knob). Now they're--what?--$5k? $7K? Haven't seen one for ages for sale.

Anyway, the SCAR is going to be more of an investment for collecting. The XCR is very much for using. Just needs a better stock! Soonest!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Hey Sloan, Remember the SP89? Nine hundred and change and I laughed at the guy back in the day. Now they are what? Uh huh!
Spilt milk for sure but I still shed a tear over that one from time to time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Yeah, I remember the SP89s. At first, they were just another HK and not even a very useful one. Then came the ban. Price doubles overnight. Then came the PDW stocks. Price doubles again, since everyone wants a SBR PDW (which, admittedly, was pretty slick). Now I think they're $4k or thereabouts. Come to think of it, with the '86 MG ban, many were converted to class three during that period, which also contributed to their scarcity.

I just see the SCAR only being available for a short time. It's not going to sell well at $3k and then there's the trainwreck coming this November and beyond. It'll simply turn into a highly desired collectable. Sorta like the semi-auto SIG 550/551s back in the '90s. Actually, compared to what those cost then, the SCAR is actually cheaper. Scary, huh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

Hey VB. How are you liking those Lancer mags?
And what the hell is up with that "to the moon and back" length of the SCAR barrel. Is the chamber located in the forward third of the weapon or what?
Looks like the fugly civi MP5s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
Re: XCR-L vs SCAR-L

I bought an SP89 and then later the 94 at a hardware store in the late 80s ,the SP89 was $ 325.00 then and the 94 was $450.00.
The SP89 to me was just a large 9mm SA pistol and the 94 over time was only another 9mm carbine ,in the real world it made no sense and i couldn't covert them anymore .
But i did sell them for big bucks and buy other stuff with the money. The surpriser was the 93 ,it went through the roof and the 91 didn't increase as much as you would think it should have.
I still have a 93 and everything for it , but i think the M96 is a far far better rifle,and if it had HK stamped on it that gun would cost over $5,000.00 easily, and the 93 would be forgotten by now.
HK are good guns, but come on they are not that good ,and at one time i had them all and their sporters Rifles.
The one sporter that everyone agrees on being unrivaled and sells very fast still today is the 270,, 22lr semi.

These pull in $1,000.00 ,no questions asked ,and owners know the reason ,it and the 91 to me are the only HKs bringing a sensible price for what they are in todays market.
Thats why i would be careful with the SCAR , And after reading the review from VB his observations concur with what i am reading every where else.
Its best now days to sit back and let the rifle get some time in the field and see what short falls are reported .
Or it is for me , I have spent to much money on the newest and best only to find out they were no better than what i had.
Right now my XCR works ,I'm sure the SCAR will to , but is a SCAR any better than an XCR only time will tell.
 
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
Top