XCR lower that uses AK mags?
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I say no. I like being able to hit a button and the mag falling free. I like the BHO feature. The AK is a great weapon but I think the mag design leaves something to be desired. just because there are a million of them it doesn't mean I want to use old tech just to shoot cheap.
I know that I am probably in the minority on this one.
I know that I am probably in the minority on this one.
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2,839 Posts
Nope. I wouldnt bother with it.
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IF there were a way to make the mags drop free,and the BHO to work I say maybe depending on cost.Drop free and BHO to me on a modern fighting tool is a must.Don't get me wrong I would not feel unsafe with my AK,but given a choice ergos win everytime.
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The $29.95 vs $10 is damn hard to ignore,not to mention the almost indestructibility of AK mags.I like to stock up on magazines,and at 30 scabs it's kinda hard to grow a serious collection.For just a 10 mag loadout your looking at $300 plus the cost of the kit,For that price I can get a good AK,20 magazines and some ammo.I like the idea of being able to go to 7.62x39 in the XCR,but to me it's not very cost effectice,unless magazine prices drop.
To me, Some of the best selling points of the XCR are the modern design and ergonomics (including drop free mags, bold hold open, position of the safety, quick mag insertion for quick tactical reloads, etc.). We can't have that with the AK mags and general AK design. Choices have to be made. I got an XCR in 7.62X39. ;D I'll keep my AK and pay extra for the mags for the XCR.
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636 Posts
As I see it. I like that AK mags are cheap. Also the reliability can not be ignored. Yes you do loose some very good features of the XCR. But having a good reliable & indestructible mag does count for something in my book. And if it was offered as an option that would be great. We all know that AK mag are far more reliable than AR type mags. Yes some will say that AK mags are old technology. But AR mags are also old tech. (AK late 1940's) (AR mid to late 1950's in the form of the AR10) And after all we are talking about a combat rifle. Any my philosophy is that I want my rifle to work every time. And the XCR is a great platform. But the AR mag is the weakest link in the system. That is also why I prefer the G3 mag in the XCR-M, instead of the DPMS mag.
The XCR is already a far more expensive platform than the typical AK. I really don't think that $30 for a low production mag for a $1400 base price rifle is out of line.
I wouldn't want to make the tradeoff in ergonomics to use an AK mag, but I realize that opinions differ.
I also have little problem with the AR mag, *especially* now that stuff like the PMAG and HK mag are available. I believe it is a durable design, superior in concept to the AK.
Kind of like gas systems. Does direct gas work; yes. Is it superior; no. That is why all the new designs use a piston.
Does the AK mag work; yes. Is it superior; no. That is why all the new designs use an AR mag.
I wouldn't want to make the tradeoff in ergonomics to use an AK mag, but I realize that opinions differ.
I also have little problem with the AR mag, *especially* now that stuff like the PMAG and HK mag are available. I believe it is a durable design, superior in concept to the AK.
Kind of like gas systems. Does direct gas work; yes. Is it superior; no. That is why all the new designs use a piston.
Does the AK mag work; yes. Is it superior; no. That is why all the new designs use an AR mag.
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6,537 Posts
An AK mag is superior to an AR mag, The constant curve gives better reliability.
I can understand why the XCR doesn't have a changeable magwell like a Cobb, but that doesn't get around the issue of a straight path magwell having issues, particularly with conical rounds. Clever engineering may solve those, but add a bit of dirt and sand and problems tend to rise up.
What makes an HK mag or PMAG superior to typical AR mags is that internally they have a curved path and significant engineering went into the design to get around AR mag flaws. ultimately it's around a design decision Alex made as to whether he wanted a common reciever and did he want changeable magwells or not.
Mag design probably didn't come into it.
I can understand why the XCR doesn't have a changeable magwell like a Cobb, but that doesn't get around the issue of a straight path magwell having issues, particularly with conical rounds. Clever engineering may solve those, but add a bit of dirt and sand and problems tend to rise up.
What makes an HK mag or PMAG superior to typical AR mags is that internally they have a curved path and significant engineering went into the design to get around AR mag flaws. ultimately it's around a design decision Alex made as to whether he wanted a common reciever and did he want changeable magwells or not.
Mag design probably didn't come into it.
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In my first post I made clear I wouldn't want to trade ergonomics for cost.
I'm no engineer,but I'm almost certain you could make a BHO work with an AK mag,The drop free on the other hand,I doubt ,but that's for people smarter than me to figure out.I'm sure if Alex could have made it work,he would have MAYBE offered it as an option.As far as AK or HK or P-mag superiority,you give me a cheapass Romanian AK mag and I will use it to pound the other two to dust,then put it bad in the rifle and it will fire,try that with just about any other magazine.It it better in every respect,NO! I know that,but it is what it is,reliable as hell,and damn near indestructible.
The point I was making, in my second post was that in order to stock up on a descent supply of magazines,your looking at quite a bit more investment.I don't just buy one magazine for my rifles and if you do $30 bucks ain't bad but If I want 30 magazines,I'm knocking on the door of the cost of the rifle itself.The point I think some of you guys fail to realize is that we all don't pull down $100,000 a year but still want a quality weapon.We just have to do it more incrementally.I also didn't mean the cost of the mags are out of line for them considering the r&d and low production.
I'm no engineer,but I'm almost certain you could make a BHO work with an AK mag,The drop free on the other hand,I doubt ,but that's for people smarter than me to figure out.I'm sure if Alex could have made it work,he would have MAYBE offered it as an option.As far as AK or HK or P-mag superiority,you give me a cheapass Romanian AK mag and I will use it to pound the other two to dust,then put it bad in the rifle and it will fire,try that with just about any other magazine.It it better in every respect,NO! I know that,but it is what it is,reliable as hell,and damn near indestructible.
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6,537 Posts
I get where you are comming from. Twenty HK mags cost about $1000 all up. I could get stock AK mages that were reliable for about a fifth of that.
Bolt hold open depends on the action of a follower on the bolt catch. The AK doesn't have one and that didn;t stop it from becomming the most popular assault rifle in the world. So popular that at least three countries with the ability to field a much more expensive rifle, copied it all be it with improvements.
Drop free is the most over assumed need ever. How often do you see people actually letting mage drop free and slamming the spare into the well? Also if you have ever seen a rapid AK reload you'd know that in some cases it can be faster than an AR load. Drop free is hollywood bollocks.
Bolt hold open depends on the action of a follower on the bolt catch. The AK doesn't have one and that didn;t stop it from becomming the most popular assault rifle in the world. So popular that at least three countries with the ability to field a much more expensive rifle, copied it all be it with improvements.
Drop free is the most over assumed need ever. How often do you see people actually letting mage drop free and slamming the spare into the well? Also if you have ever seen a rapid AK reload you'd know that in some cases it can be faster than an AR load. Drop free is hollywood bollocks.
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I can tell ya this Mick If I were gettin' shot at you would see the fastest AK reload in history...lmao ;D
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One of the issues that may have made the project un-doable according to Alex is the fact that our magwell sits higher than a standard AR or an AK's does. This was a deliberate part of the design, with the intent to smooth out the feeding process. As a result, you get smooth feeds and no AK magazines.
This is my theory, of course.
This is my theory, of course.
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It does make sense Terra.
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384 Posts
i would rather use my current lower and buy mags too fit it.
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5,071 Posts
It's a novelty the Masada had which, while intriguing and neat, didn't really do it for me either. As far as drop free goes, I've seen aftermarket mag release extensions that place an ambi lever kinda in the same position as the bolt catch on the XCR so it is trigger finger accessible. I watched some ex-Soviet Army guy on the TV do a reload and he just beat the mag out by hitting the mag release with the new mag and a swift pop. Using a version of the above lever and a variation of that method would really speed up a reload.
Now that's my opinion and I am also of the opinion that if such a thing were made it would sell very well because folks have an opinion different than mine. Those folks probably have a mountain of AK mags and favor the AK platform too.
Now that's my opinion and I am also of the opinion that if such a thing were made it would sell very well because folks have an opinion different than mine. Those folks probably have a mountain of AK mags and favor the AK platform too.
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Look at the votes, no real concensus one way or the other.
Cobb let you change the magwell so you could have a range of 308 magazines, DPMS, HK etc.. or the AK magazine for 7.62x39.
I think an AK mag would have been nice but not having it isn't the end of the world.
Cobb let you change the magwell so you could have a range of 308 magazines, DPMS, HK etc.. or the AK magazine for 7.62x39.
I think an AK mag would have been nice but not having it isn't the end of the world.
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