[kolob]

Though many tactical experts think our current trigger is just fine, there's a certain percentage of shooters who do not like it. Some shooters want a trigger with a very light pull. There are many aftermarket M-16 triggers which many of our customers like. However, in looking at most of the "match triggers" that are available for M-16, many of them have small screws or small and weak parts. We've heard from professionals that these match triggers don't hold up. During training courses, these match trigger inevitably come apart or break at crucial times. No experienced shooter wants a fire control system which is going to fail.

We've promised our customers to make a match trigger which would be up to our standards. Well, we've done it. It has just successfully passed the military drop tests and other safety tests. Here are the specs.

1) The trigger breaks at between 3-4 pounds.
2) The first stage is a slightly longer than the first stage of the current XCR trigger. The second stage is short and crisp. We guaranty that the fussiest of trigger lovers will love this trigger. (We can do a single stage version of this for anyone who wants it.)
3) The parts are very strong and durable. There are no small cross sections. This is a system one could take into battle and not worry about it.
4) These parts are compatible with your current receiver. You can put them in yourself.
5) The price will be at or under $95.00. It includes a new hammer, hammer spring, trigger, disconnect and disconnect spring.

DO NOT ASK OUR SALES STAFF WHEN THESE WILL BE AVAILABLE. NOW THAT THE DESIGN IS DONE, WE PROMISE TO GET THESE INTO PRODUCTION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. FOR PATENT REASONS, WE CANNOT DISCLOSE MORE NOW OR OFFER THESE FOR SALE NOW. WHEN WE HAVE A DELIVERY DATE, WE WILL POST IT HERE AND ON OUR WEBSITE. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ORDER FROM THE WEBSITE AT THAT TIME. WE WILL KEEP YOU POSTED.

Again, we want to reiterate that we are striving to make the XCR the best rifle possible and to meet our customers exacting requirements.

Sincerely,

Alex J. Robinson
Manager
Robinson Armament Co.

 

[captain92]

Hurry up April 30th. That is when I can order my xcr! Will see how I like that trigger and if not, can always upgrade. Thanks much guys for all of your work! I want an xcr so bad, I can feel the metal in my hand!

 

[EricCartmann]

Who are the tactical experts? Certain percentage of shooters do not like it? 100% is a certain percent? Everyone I let sample my XCR says man that trigger is just horrid. Not only is it heavy but it is very inconsistent, meaning it feels different each time you pull the trigger. But glad to see this area is being addressed

 

[bolster]

I would venture to say at least 90% of XCR owners aren't exactly in love with the trigger. Luckily, this is something that's easily fixed.

 

[i303]

Oustanding!

Alex,

I'd be one to agree with you about nit picking shooters and I personally don't mind military weight triggers to the point aacH und Kahy and other military standard triggers don't even phase me. But that first stage in my XCR seems to be a tricky one to the point that it feels like a stage and a half. Sometimes I feel it and sometimes I don't and it just fels extra heavy. Specially when I'm trying to take up slack and "Bang!". Hate to say it, but my XCR's trigger is only a tad better than an AUG. I would have agreed that either it just stays the same weight but make it a one stage or at least make the first stage longer.

I welcome a longer first stage and I'm looking foward to this new trigger. For what is worth trigger control is usually the first thing out da door when it comes to close quarters frantic zombie a'killin' time anyways.

 

[EricCartmann]

nitpicking shooters? I myself don't mind a heavy pull. I don't mind the stock trigger on my AR-10 or my other AR-15's. Also, even before I got a trigger job on my FAL and M1A I remember it being a hell of a lot than the XCR.

I am not reaching when I say the XCR is the worst trigger of all time.

 

[UDT]

Thanks, for the update.

 

[tinman]

thanks alex. just another reason that robinson arms customer service is so great. listen to your customers, respond timely, advance your product, beat your competition to the punch. keep up the great work.

 

[MickeyC]

I'll believe it when I see it and hear others comments. To actually claim that your stock trigger is ok is plain BS. Design isn't that hot, the quality of manufacturing is awful and even worse it isn't consistent. I don't mind an 8lb pull as long as it's the same every time.

Also to claim that Timney or CMP make bad products is similarly off the mark.

Please stop trying to BS your faithful customers. The next time I go to the range it won't be 'Hey, try my XCR, it's a great rifle" it could well be " Hey try my XCR it's agreat rifle but the owner tries to bulshit his customers so watch out". The only thing most of us don;t like about the rifle is the trigger, everythinig else we pretty much love.

We have a saying in the UK, "Focus on your job and stop talking utter bollocks" Respect is hard to earn and easy to loose. It's much harder to earn after you loose it.

 

[ny32182]

Of rifle triggers that I have felt, worst trigger I've ever tried by far was on a PTR-91. Second worst is the factory FAL triggers. Then the XCR. Then the AR standard trigger. IMO. I thought the trigger on my VEPR was quite nice actually... I just wished it had a little shorter range of travel, overall...

For "combat shooting", I think all of them are fine.

That said, I'll be in for one of these new XCR triggers; no doubt about it. 3-4lb sounds a little light for a "combat" trigger, but if its too light, I'll just reinstall the current one and continue to break it in. Then if I ever try to do a "precision" XCR, I'll have a trigger for it.

Thanks, Alex. Can't wait.

 

[kolob]

Thanks for the quick feed back. There are experts like John Farnam and Ben Kurata just to name two who think the current trigger is just fine. They both teach classes all the time.

Here's what we found which is really quite interesting. I was at a trade show where I watched a certain customer who was pulling right through the second stage of our current trigger as though it was not two-stage. He simply could not find the second stage if his life depended on it. I grabbed the rifle and could easily find the second stage. Here's what I learned.

The customer was using the pad of his index finger rather than the joint to pull the trigger. I found that those using the pad of the index finger have much less control. So if the trigger is a little stiff, they simply pull right past the second stage. Most of the shooters who don't like our trigger are using their pads.

So what I've done recently, is test all the triggers before they go out so that even one pulls with his pad, he can feel the second stage. The triggers going out now are pretty good. But that's not good enough. We want to satisfy all our customers.

By the way, I shot an XCR along side an Alexander Arms Grendel rifle which had a 4 lb. pull. I don't know what brand of trigger was in the AA gun. It was light but did not reset well. I could shoot just as well with the XCR with the 7 lb pull. But that's just me.

The new trigger is so smooth, I don't think even the fussiest match trigger lover will complain.

 

[wristlock]

We wanted change and RA gave it to us.
WAIT "change" that sounds like political talk. Darn, wrong thread. :duh:

Seriously, good work. You listen to the customer.
We are just impatient with the speed to market. We're the American buyer!

 

[i303]

I've heard of John Farnam and know zilch about him and I never heard of Ben Kurata. I'm sure I will be bashed just as I was when I posted somewhere else that I didn't know who Pat Rodgers was as if i should. I do know who he is now. I'm sure they are good shooters, high speed experts who teach classes that maybe one day my agency might pay me to attend one.

However I can confidently say I too am an expert who have trained with regularly, and regularly carry rifles in the field for over 25 years. I never attended a SHOT show and rarely even get time to attend any shows. However I do qualify 4 times a year, and recently finished up doing 5 years Fireamrs Instructor duties as a collateral duty. I have trained with BP SRT, a few times with BORTAC, and a couple of other local SWAT rifle courses when doing my FI time. I think my 7 years as an Infantryman I did more trigger time and at longer ranges besides having to instruct ROTC and West Point Cadets.

I've been taught, and have trained, and therefore instructed others, to use your finger pad for better control. Because I have big hands i tend to use my finger pad closest to my knuckle. I can tell when someone uses other than the pad of your finger simply by looking at their target and seeing a horizontal string.

The XCR trigger is far from fine, only 2nd worse from the AUG's as I mentioned before. I can't tell half the time where the first stage begins or ends on my XCR and I know better as to which part of my finger to use. I even have a hard time telling at times even when I use the pad inbetween the joints just to get a feel. The amount of pressure it takes to slack it up tends to be too much and there goes the shot before you know it. It does bother me that now I will shell out $95 to see if it improves. Personally, I really prefer a military pull over a match because I'm so accustomed to it. But either there should be a more noticeable 1st stage or make it a single stage. It does chap my hide when I'm shooting at 200 meters seing a shot go left or right more often than it should.

 

[MickeyC]

When you start to bullshit your own customers you've really lost the plot. What the heck is a tactical expert anyway. I used to be a CQB and FIBUA instructor and I don't consider myself an expert.

That nonesense about using the inside of the first knuckle instead of the pad is utter crap. Basic physiology, more never endings on the pad than the knuckle......mechanics allow a pad to pull the trigger straight......

The people on this forum are either existing customers or prospective customers, you need to remember that and treat them all with respect. It's fine to disagree with them but to treat them with utter contempt is disgraceful and you should be ashamed.

I just can't fathom what you were thinking, or maybe the problem is that you weren't.

Alex, I have no more respect for you. You, threw it away.

 

[ny32182]

Guess you better sell your rifle and move on. :

 

[magikbullet]

good to hear the trigger is coming along Alex. I'll have to get that when the 308 rolls around

ny32182, I have a ptr91, and I think the xcr's was worse. of course Bill Springfield has worked over both rifles' triggers so they're great now

 

[MickeyC]

NY32182, I think you missed the whole point.

The rifle is a great product. The fact that it's based on the best parts or features of three of the best weapons of all time is a huge positive.

I have one of the first rifles out the door, ordered before a review was printed.

I just object to the owner of the company talking to me/us like I am/we are stupid. He does himself no good and does a disservice to his own company and to the staff who work their asses off for him.

Do you actually respect someone who you know is bulshitting you? Personally, I don't. I respect the design, and the intent for the rifle but the execution is a bit off. alienating customers is a dumb move.

Anyway, time to calm down, take a pill and wait to see if the new trigger is actually any good.

Terra works her butt of as does everyone at RobArm. Focus should be on the product, design and quality.

 

[ny32182]

All he said was that the XCR stock trigger performs its role as a combat trigger adequately. It does.

He said that match triggers (not naming any names) are known to be less reliable than standard "combat" triggers. They are. The only individual who has mentioned any brand names is you.

As far as "pad", "knuckle", whatever, I'll leave that argument for people who think it matters on a rifle like the XCR. We aren't shooting quarter inch 1000 yard groups here, folks. Its a "combat rifle".

He stated that the XCR is the most innovative carbine on the planet now. It is. Yes it borrows some similar (not exact, but similar) traits from the AK, AR, and FAL. Then there is the completely unique bolt/barrel system, gas system, and monolithic upper. All completely new. Based on pictures of the internals of the other rifles (since we can't buy them), I don't have any problem *right now* stating that the XCR is a greater departure from any existing rifle than any of the other new rifles on the horizon. If the others never make it to market, well, then there is really no question about it.

My only gripe with the final product so far is that I wish the ejector was more permanently attached. In the grand scheme, its a small gripe. Much like the trigger. A small, easily-aftermarket-fixable gripe.

 

[TerraShrewsbury]

Keep it friendly

 

[Juicespeare1]

Kolob/Alex,

You can say what you want about what digit to use, use the knuckle joint or pad, but in the end, your stock trigger has a bad feel.

Enough of us owners have stated as such and you've responded by working on a new trigger or fire control group. Good deal, respond to your customers, that's good business.

I will say you do speak some BS and come off as pompous sometimes. Give it a rest, we're all shooters here and know how to shoot a rifle. I certainly don't need instructions from you on this.

You'll never convince me to use the knuckle joint when all my other training states otherwise to get a consistent trigger pull.

I really wish you'd get off the BS soapbox and just give the damn facts when you post. I couldn't care less about your feelings about your competitors or bad dealing you've had at AR15.com.

The Fagpul comments in your other posts (you done this now a couple of times now) just really makes me loose any kind of respect for you. You act like a child when when referring to other company's products. Give it a rest.

Other companies make better triggers than you do, others make better stocks, etc.

You make a fine rifle, but you don't make the BEST of everything, nor do you have to make the best of everything. We, the users (buyers) will pick what we want to use which is best for us.

It seems you can't really cope with any kind of criticism or competition, just like a child. Grow up. I think you should just keep your personal comments to yourself when posting here. Post the facts, listen to our suggestions, that's fine and I can respect that.

But, don't come here acting like a child and expect those of us to like it.

Now ... I'll step off my soapbox.

EDIT: I should add that I have a couple of JP triggers and RRA triggers and like them. The JP adjustable trigger is quite good and works very well on 308 AR-style rifles.