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Sean, I would agree about the mpx except for the charging handle location, they should have stuck with the side charging like the 550 series had, then I then they would have had the market...
Meh...not a fan of the overall AR ergos/layout. I get why....everyone has gotten used to shitty ergos.....the XCR spoils us.Sean, I would agree about the mpx except for the charging handle location, they should have stuck with the side charging like the 550 series had, then I then they would have had the market...
I wish RA would get their ass in gear to have at least a mock-up ready to view. At this rate, the PCC market will be all but gobbled up by the likes of Sig, CZ, Beretta, etc. The threat of a new AWB is also cause for concern; it could stop the sale of XCR-P before it even begins. Would an AWB affect pistol caliber firearms and subguns?OK I'm ready for the XCR-P.
I’ve got CMMG uppers in 9 and 5.7 and both use the “conversion mags” (PMAGs with the “insert”) and both have worked well for me.Cmmg makes a 9mm mag that uses a 556 body a lot like how the 22 ar mags are made, to get rid of adapters, and mags that don't fit normal gear, I've never used them, but they look cool and other than the fact that a 556 mag filled with 9mm is kinda size prohibited it looks like a decent solution to the strait mag single feed that glock mags have.
I know you're new but this is just how things develop at RA. It's a slow process....and yet, name one other company that has done all the caliber conversions, different monolithic uppers, bbl lengths, upgrade of the ambi controls, bigger BHO, etc. that RobArms has. No one.I wish RA would get their ass in gear to have at least a mock-up ready to view. At this rate, the PCC market will be all but gobbled up by the likes of Sig, CZ, Beretta, etc. The threat of a new AWB is also cause for concern; it could stop the sale of XCR-P before it even begins. Would an AWB affect pistol caliber firearms and subguns?
For anyone who has used a CZ Scorpion or any other PCC, does anyone find value in the charging handle that lets you hold the bolt open and do the "HK slap" to close the bolt? I hear a few people who go gaga over that feature but it seems to be a meme to me. I bring this up because an ambi charging handle that lets you slap it closed could be one feature a XCR-P could have that the Sig MPX doesn't. The charging handle style on the XCR works fine to me and I'm afraid having a bolt hold open might add too much redundancy, but I also think it would be nice to have the option to use one handle that can hold open and close the bolt and a little forward assist.
I also did a little look into making a 9mm caliber conversion for the XCR-L for anyone who was wondering: you could bore a 5.56 bolt and extractor to accept the 9mm case and chamber a barrel blank for 9mm, but (taking Sig's MPX barrel design as a hint) you won't be able to install an (appreciable) gas port into said barrel because the barrel extension is covered by the rifle's upper, blocking the part of the barrel that would provide the best gas pressure to cycle a piston. Then you could use an AR-15 magwell adapter to accept 9mm magazines and do something with the recoil spring to get the timing right to cycle 9mm rounds. After all that work, you'd have a straight blowback PCC out of the heavy XCR-L. Considering that fact, the expense of chambering a new XCR barrel and the fact that you would have to re-balance the operating system with the recoil spring, and I just don't find it a worthwile project to get into. Even if it did work, you'd be the owner of a heavy, all-metal blowback PCC, which might be the antithesis of the XCR platform.
Correction: You can't make a blowback bolt if the bolt is designed to rotate and lock into the barrel extension. So to get a blowback PCC, you need to design a new non-rotating bolt and/or a barrel extension that doesn't let the bolt plunge into there (GAH!). Alternatively, you could try using a barrel with the shortest gas length available, (long enough for the Micro length piston for Blackout) and try to cycle the gas that way; but I don't think siphoning gas from the round as it's traveling out of the barrel would give it enough muzzle energy in the end and/or give it enough gas to cycle anyway. In short it's a lot of work for something I know is going to be underwhelming, lol.you could bore a 5.56 bolt and extractor to accept the 9mm case and chamber a barrel blank for 9mm
I actually did consider that Cmmg mag but I noticed that it set the cartridge far back on the magazine and thus you would need the bolt to travel as far back as it would for 5.56 to pick up the next round. Considering gas constraints I wanted to reduce the needed bolt travel as much as possible. The magwell adapters also have a brass ejector that helps get the 9mm brass out of there.Cmmg makes a 9mm mag that uses a 556 body a lot like how the 22 ar mags are made,
I know, I know. But hope springs eternal, right?I know you're new but this is just how things develop at RA. It's a slow process...
9mm = 30 roundsCool, thanks for the feedback. Do you feel like the mag is reliable enough to offset the added size, compared to glock or colt mag? Also how many rounds do the conversion mags hold?
^This. I get the decision to use Glock mags....but still. The CZ Scorpions or PSAs are SOOO freaking good and inexpensive. For 9mm it makes more sense. I wonder...if RA does a .45 or 10mm....won't the lower have to be different considering the glock frame sizes are different for the larger calibers?If we are talking about mag possibilities for a future XCR-P, I’d like to see a CZ style (PSA clones are excellent and cheap) or an MP5 style mag.
What I meant was when I have to engage BHO on my -L when I want to clear it, I have to pull back the charging handle and then use my trigger finger to lift up the bolt catch. It's not a huge deal but it would be nice to have to do that all with the charging handle. I typically go to an outdoor range and the RSO wants everyone to empty their guns and hold their bolts open before posting new targets, so I find myself having to engage the BHO a lot, lol.Not following on your BHO comment. The XCR's charging handle CAN and DOES release BHO and offers forward assist.
The curve of the Scorpion mag seems to work great for feeding 30+ rounds of 9mm reliably, shame a similar design hasn't been adopted for 10mm or .45 ACP, though there is probably a reason for that. One thing about the Scorpion mag though, it loads by way of a lug at the back of the magazine that is caught and secured by the magazine release; the same release that occupies the space behind the magwell that the XCR family puts the bolt catch foot. Internally and externally, the systems would get in the way of each other.^This. I get the decision to use Glock mags....but still. The CZ Scorpions or PSAs are SOOO freaking good and inexpensive. For 9mm it makes more sense.
I wonder...if RA does a .45 or 10mm....won't the lower have to be different considering the glock frame sizes are different for the larger calibers?
I would guess that RA would do what DT did with the MDRX, make the gun support .45 ACP natively and use magwell adapters that allow support for the smaller calibers. Alternatively, they could make the magwell bigger than any of the calibers and require the installation of one of three magwell adapters for each caliber mag, that way they can add other necessary features. I don't expect the pistol calibers to be different enough to warrant a different brass extractor, but a specific brass extractor could be screwed into the corresponding magwell adapter if need be. Hopefully the same feed ramp can be shared across calibers, but if necessary a specific feed ramp can be also included with the magwell adapter.Sean I wonder the same thing about multiple sized pcc lowers and it not really falling into the "eXchangable Caliber Rifles" concept... Although the desert tech MDR has the ability to change from 556 to 308 in the same receiver. So maybe there are more advanced designs Alex has up his sleeve that my simple monkey brain has not considered.
Good point on the mag release for a CZ mag. However, you are going to a much smaller magwell....and should be able to have the mag release in that extra space, but it all depends on how the lower is actually designed. The actual claw on the BHO that actuates the mag follower would likely be the bigger issue since it would have to be longer to reach to the mag itself.What I meant was when I have to engage BHO on my -L when I want to clear it, I have to pull back the charging handle and then use my trigger finger to lift up the bolt catch. It's not a huge deal but it would be nice to have to do that all with the charging handle. I typically go to an outdoor range and the RSO wants everyone to empty their guns and hold their bolts open before posting new targets, so I find myself having to engage the BHO a lot, lol.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, a Scorpion-style charging handle would lose the FA. Oh well, can't have it all. I still would think it would appeal to the current PCC/subgun crowd.
The curve of the Scorpion mag seems to work great for feeding 30+ rounds of 9mm reliably, shame a similar design hasn't been adopted for 10mm or .45 ACP, though there is probably a reason for that. One thing about the Scorpion mag though, it loads by way of a lug at the back of the magazine that is caught and secured by the magazine release; the same release that occupies the space behind the magwell that the XCR family puts the bolt catch foot. Internally and externally, the systems would get in the way of each other.
https://hbindustries.net/store/wp-c...roStock-Magazine-Release_3-e1528843350342.jpg
I would guess that RA would do what DT did with the MDRX, make the gun support .45 ACP natively and use magwell adapters that allow support for the smaller calibers. Alternatively, they could make the magwell bigger than any of the calibers and require the installation of one of three magwell adapters for each caliber mag, that way they can add other necessary features. I don't expect the pistol calibers to be different enough to warrant a different brass extractor, but a specific brass extractor could be screwed into the corresponding magwell adapter if need be. Hopefully the same feed ramp can be shared across calibers, but if necessary a specific feed ramp can be also included with the magwell adapter.
I've been following the design of the Sig MPX and I find it as a great opportunity for RA to learn from Sig Sauer's ideas and mistakes as it's essentially what RA wants to do with the -P. One issue that has cropped up is the fact that apparently, MPXs have been chewing up their triggers because the bolt assembly on the MPX moves too fast and hard. Part of that may have been due to Sig wanting to reuse as many parts from the MCX line as possible and initially ended up with bolts that were too light and springs that are too rigid that caused said issues. Being over-gassed from the factory and the gas valve not being adjustable by default are also suspected causes. In RA's case, it would seem tempting to reuse the same parts from the -L and use them in the -P (I certainly thought they could get away with that too), but I believe the end product will resemble the operating system in the present XCR family but smaller/optimized for pistol cartridge pressures. The fact that the -P is likely to have one recoil spring versus the MPX's two should make the bolt travel less violent and avoid the trigger reliability issues that the (older gen anyway) MPX line suffers.
I feel like a kid who has been told that his dad was with someone else before he married mom on the rebound. How unfaithful!Whatever though...the PCC XCR isn't something I'd buy anyway. I'd much rather have the AK-V.
Honestly, I cringe at the idea that RA will have to introduce a new gun with a new set of logistics on top of what they already have to do. If the -P is gonna work properly, it's going to need a unique bolt, barrel, op rod, piston, recoil spring etc, I don't think it'll be sharing many parts with the -L or whatever. It must be a hassle to have to manage building parts for the -L and the -M already, let alone the M96 whenever they have to do that. Is RA still making the old types of parts for the older generations of the XCR? For a company that works like RA, it's got to be a mess. The retooling is probably what's holding back the launch of the -P.although the idea may well be cost prohibitive.
What xcr/barrel combos are considered low gas that you would want to move the piston?What do you know:
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Look how far back that gas port is. I guess there isn't that much gas to take advantage of. I wonder if we can replicate this with our XCR-Ls with a barrel blank and one of the shorter pistons?